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Nitrogen in the 1800 tires ?

3K views 46 replies 31 participants last post by  chazzman 
#1 ·
I would like to know if anyone uses nitrogen in their tires and is it worth the trouble and expense ?

Mike
 
#2 ·
I ran nitrogen in my tires the second half of 06. I had no additional cost, the dealer that changed my tries just started offering this service. Tire pressure stays much more consistant between hot and cold and less loss while sitting for a number of days.
 
#4 ·
I understand all the details except for 1; What is the cost?
 
#7 ·
Danomite33 said:
1. No
2. Absolutely not worth the trouble

The converse: what benifit(s) could possibly justify making an otherwise simple maintenance function complicated by a factor of 10?
What trouble?? if you have to add pressure you just add normal air from a compressor. Your still only running a 90% Nitrogen mix. Many tire (car) dealerships in this area that have nitrogen will only charge $2 to 2.50 per tire. No charge from my motorcycle dealer if you buy at least one tire from them and they mount the tire.
 
#10 ·
Nitrogen is typically available as 99%+ free from moisture. Tire pressure doesn't matter what gas is inside the tire. However, from a corrosion standpoint, dry nitrogen is an effective mechanism for minimizing/eliminating corrosion.
 
#11 ·
A large percentage of water vapor in your tire will cause issues with pressure when it condenses. Corrosion is more attributed to oxygen than it is water. Either way, dry nitrogen has neither water or oxygen in it which is desirable. But I don't feel the meager benefits are worth while for the street tire.
 
#13 ·
PoleCat said:
A large percentage of water vapor in your tire will cause issues with pressure when it condenses. Corrosion is more attributed to oxygen than it is water. Either way, dry nitrogen has neither water or oxygen in it which is desirable. But I don't feel the meager benefits are worth while for the street tire.
At normal temperatures corrosion won't occur when a metal surface is exposed to gaseous oxygen unless moisture is present. If you can eliminate water vapor by not using compressed air, then there can't be any condensation, hence corrosive reactions will be stopped.

I"m not advocating nitrogen at all... just stating the only advantage that I can think of.
 
#14 ·
Cherry Pie said:
A local dealer will evacuate the air and replace it with the nitrogen for 10 dollars per tire.
I have a bridge for sale, you interested?
 
#15 ·
Leon Kowalski said:
Keghead said:
However, from a corrosion standpoint, dry nitrogen is an
effective mechanism for minimizing/eliminating corrosion.

When was the last time you had an alloy wheel rot out from the inside?

...can anyone recommend a good crush-washer wax?

LK

As I stated before, I'm not advocating nitrogen. However, I have heard on this board of problems using "Slime" (I think) for fixing leaks... not such a stretch to see how moisture will interact with the chemicals in these types of materials.

A far cheaper and easier way to minimize moisture in a tire is to get air from a compressor with an in-line moisture trap.
 
#18 ·
Cherry Pie said:
A local dealer will evacuate the air and replace it with the nitrogen for 10 dollars per tire.
I am curious as to how they "evacuate the air"? The only way to effectively do this is mount the tires in a 100% nitrogen enviornment. Probably not too healthy for the tire technician.
For a racer who can detect 1/2 PSI differences this may be a good thing but I doubt a few PSI is going to be noticable to a street rider.

Pete
 
#20 ·
Norton said:
Cherry Pie said:
A local dealer will evacuate the air and replace it with the nitrogen for 10 dollars per tire.
I am curious as to how they "evacuate the air"? The only way to effectively do this is mount the tires in a 100% nitrogen enviornment. Probably not too healthy for the tire technician.
For a racer who can detect 1/2 PSI differences this may be a good thing but I doubt a few PSI is going to be noticable to a street rider.

Pete
By putting a vacuum pump on the valve stem. Duh!
 
#21 ·
Italian Stallion said:
Norton said:
[quote="Cherry Pie":1q1mgnq9]A local dealer will evacuate the air and replace it with the nitrogen for 10 dollars per tire.
I am curious as to how they "evacuate the air"? The only way to effectively do this is mount the tires in a 100% nitrogen enviornment. Probably not too healthy for the tire technician.
For a racer who can detect 1/2 PSI differences this may be a good thing but I doubt a few PSI is going to be noticable to a street rider.

Pete


By putting a vacuum pump on the valve stem. Duh![/quote:1q1mgnq9]

Try it. The tire would have to completely collapse on itself for all the air to be removed. Not likely. If they are lucky they might get 98% of the air out. Here at work vacuum means 99.999999% of all the molecules are removed.

Pete
 
#22 ·
Well, Pete, my bad. I was actually thinking of the vacuum pumps that we use at work to pump out to recover and reclaim the old refrigerant before disassembling the AC compressors. Of course, AC compressors are not made of rubber, but as you said, 98% is better than none. Myself, I'll continue with my trusty air compressor. Forgive me for not thinking as clearly as yourself.

Ride safely,

Mike
 
#23 ·
Norton said:
I am curious as to how they "evacuate the air"? The only way to effectively do this is mount the tires in a 100% nitrogen environment.
sometimes good enough is good enough ...

air is about 70% nitrogen anyway
so even if you left 15% of the "air" in the tire before you added the 100% nitrogen
(conservative guess on my part)
you' have a mixture of 95.5% nitrogen if you topped off with 100% nitrogen.

I think it is the "inert" factor that makes nitrogen more desirable in race cars and airplanes ...

95.5% inert is probably good enough for our needs.

I have an air strut on the front of my airplane.
nothing complex there ... just a piston and couple of O-rings.

The "correct" inflation pressure for the strut is 75lbs.
If I fill it with "air" it seems go soft and need "topping" about every 3 months or so but
... if I fill with nitrogen it seems to last for about eight to nine months before it needs "topping" again.
The strut is not evacuated; just collapsed and refilled with nitrogen
... I've never measured it but there is a gap at the top still filled with air even when it is collapsed.

I think there is merit to using nitrogen
... but for everyday use I don't think it is "critical".

Dennis
 
#24 ·
Just to make clear, I am not saying there is not a benefit but rather to point out no one is getting 100% nitrogen in their tires. Here are work we probably consume 2-3 times what NASCAR uses every week so I am familiar with the product. "Cheap" nitrogen is less than 99% pure out of the tank. 99.9% pure nitrogen is 7-8 times as expensive. By inflating and then applying a vacuum to the wheel, then reinflating you might approach 98% nitrogen which is better than the 78-79% in the air. Thats why I am curious how the tire dealers install it.

Pete
 
#25 ·
Question
what are the benefits of nitrogen filled tires?

Answered by: Barry Smith

Profile/Expertise: I have over 30 years experience in the design, manufacturing, and testing of tires. I have served as the technical advisor to the "800" number. I have authored or co-authored many publications - usually without credit. I can answer almost any technical question, but please don`t ask me to compare brands. I have prejudices because of my work experience.
Member SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) Member Tire Society (Tire Technical Organization) SCCA Regional Competiton License holder Authored many training manuals on tires, their care and use.

Answer:
I think there are 2 advantages to using nitrogen as an inflation medium.

Nitogen has a larger molecule than some of the elements in air so the gradual air loss is lower.

Nitrogen doesn't have oxygen, so oxygen degradation is lessened.

Personally, I don't think the advantages are worth the price for normal usage. Maybe for cars in a museum or for racing.

I think the reason nitrogen is being marketed is that many people have heard that racers use nitrogen. Well, that's true, but the reason they do is that they don't carry an air compressor to their pit to power their impact wrenches - they use a nitrogen bottle - so they use this to inflate their tires. Plus many racers don't regularly clean out their air storage tank and water gets into the lines and then into the tires. When that happens the pressure buildup is erratic and unpredictable, hence the myth that nitrogen is better.

Hope this helps.
 
#26 ·
Diatomic Nitrogen is about 150pm (or 0.00000000015 meters)
Diatomic Oxygen is about 146 pm

these two gasses comprise about 98% or so of what we call air (except here in NJ of course!! :lol:

Find it hard to belive that the 4 pico meters makes such a huge difference.
 
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