[Dennis Firth]

Did my fall service on my 04 Wing then ran it through the gears, engine running , while up on the center stand.
Immediatly noticed a hard vibration and clunking from the drive train and it seems to be worst at the rear drive unit. All gears, smooths out slightly in higher gears.
Haven't had any problems or oil leakage and have checked the fluid level and everything looks OK.

Anyone else had this ?

Could it be the angle of the driveshaft while on the center stand?

5 days left on Warranty so I want to be sure.

Follow-up

Had a semi retired former Honda Shop Foreman, friend of a friend stop by and give a listen to the Wing. Cost was a couple of beers and some good stories.

His take, driveline clearances and lash, not the quietest one he's heard and not the worst. Says Honda won't fix, if it's fine on the road then it's OK by Honda. On the other hand if it was his Wing he would take it apart at some point and check the driveshaft etc.

We spoke of other shaft drive bikes and how they usually have less suspension arc or a longer drive shaft compared to the Wing and that is why in my experience there was little or no driveline noise in those bikes.

He also had no problem with my running the bike through the gears while on the center stand at a reasonable rpm. It would be interesting to raise the final drive to a "normal" position and then run the rear wheel. May have to come up a way to do that.

Putting on the rear brake to act as a load changed the sound somewhat but the snap, my major concern, was still there.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Your experiences may vary.

 

[upssnowman]

Your not saying you ran it through the gears while up on the centerstand are You??? if so thats really bad nothing to absorb the torque

 

[Guest]

Bad idea running up on the stand. Try that with your car sometime. :roll: You will shake the hell out of it.

The suspension just goes into uncontrolled oscillation with nothing to dampen it. Shocks and springs are unloaded and flopping in the breeze.

Put it on the road for a test.

Ride safe.

 

[Dennis Firth]

Absorb the Torque?

New one on me, you've never raised a vehicle on a two post hoist started it and put it into gear to find driveline noise and vibration? Pretty common in my neck of the woods.

Circumstances dictate that I put the wing away early this year and I didn't have time for a quick ride to circulate the fresh oil. So yes, on the center stand, running, through the gears. BTW if you do this it is important not to make quick shifts as the torque from the spinning wheel can rock the center stand.

What it feels like to me is a snapping u-joint but is it only because of the steeper angle the driveshaft is at when it's on the center stand?
I would think the universal would be able to do its job at any angle the swingarm can travel through.

The noise and vibration seem to be coming from the input part of the final drive while the output at the motor seems to be quiet. The ujoint is located at the motor end of the driveshaft.

Will have to bring my electronic stethoscope home to further isolate the noise.

 

[upssnowman]

Why ask if your going to do what you want anyhow, even when you dyno an engine there is something absorbing the torque the rollers the wheels are on have resistance, this is a very bad idea in any neck of the woods espically if there are only 5 days of warranty left, if you pulled a trailer for a lot of miles in 4 years you may have a bad u-joint but very unlikely, are splines lubed properly with Honda moly when tires are changed, and is the rear hub changed often , the angle of operation is wrong on the centerstand, u-joint will probably thump at this angle

 

[Guest]

Absorb the Torque?

New one on me, you've never raised a vehicle on a two post hoist started it and put it into gear to find driveline noise and vibration? Pretty common in my neck of the woods.

Circumstances dictate that I put the wing away early this year and I didn't have time for a quick ride to circulate the fresh oil. So yes, on the center stand, running, through the gears. BTW if you do this it is important not to make quick shifts as the torque from the spinning wheel can rock the center stand.

What it feels like to me is a snapping u-joint but is it only because of the steeper angle the driveshaft is at when it's on the center stand?
I would think the universal would be able to do its job at any angle the swingarm can travel through.



The noise and vibration seem to be coming from the input part of the final drive while the output at the motor seems to be quiet. The ujoint is located at the motor end of the driveshaft.

Will have to bring my electronic stethoscope home to further isolate the noise.

Oh well upssnowman, we tried!

I hope I don't have to have a driveline problem diagnosed in his "neck of the woods", which is a mystery since he doesn't tell us where his woods are. :roll: :lol:

Ride safe all.

 

[Guest]

The wheel needs to have resistance against it.
You must like Shrapnel ! :shock:

 

[Dennis Firth]

Gents, if you check my profile you'll see I teach High School Mechanics.

Have been doing this for 28 years. Not saying I can't learn something new or that what I do is always 100% correct but can't buy your arguments.
Just hasn't been my experience. Our school is also partnered with a major automotive dealership, as a matter of fact we share the same building. Standard procedure to raise a car up, 2 or 4 post, and run the wheels with the engine to perform diagnostics in both our school and the dealership. In my experience I've never had anything grenade, oscillate to a degree that it self destructed or come off the hoist.
When we do a transmission service for example after refilling close to capacity the drive wheels are lifted, the engine started and the transmission put in reverse. After running in reverse for a time it is then run through the forward gears then put into park and the fluid level checked and so on.


BTW I am not revving the engine anything much over idle, obviously the rear wheel will spin faster in the higher gears.

 

[Guest]

Now we all know why Home Schooling is so popular.

 

[Dennis Firth]

"Now we all know why Home Schooling is so popular"

LOL, Best part is that out of our facility we run a Virtual School, a supported learning program for Home Schoolers, Alternative delivery programs and I have had students from every one of these programs take my Automotive classes on site. The majority of my students are bussed in from local high schools as we offer, believe it or not, advanced instruction and experiences on late model cars.

 

[NJREF]

Don't know about ya'lls Goldwing...but her in my neck o' da woods here in New Joisy.....our Goldwings are deisgned to run on the road...we dumb folks here take our Wings out for a test ride on them there roads!

Not sure whut running the heck outta a motorcycle on the side stand means...I reckon you'd git a whole lot of rumblin' and such a goin' on

But whut do we know????

 

[mrmegoo]

"But whut do we know????"

Well said since you apparently couldn't help Dennis with the noise he ask about in the original post. Seems to be more of a tounge lashing-ridiculing board than a tech board.
Just my observation. 8)

 

[MotorcycleBoy]

Dennis- the driveshaft only has one u-joint and it is up front near where the swing-arm pivots. The drive shaft itself is only 18" to 24" long with a slip yoke at each end so the noise could be caused by a bad u-joint but I doubt it. I really don't believe the angle would be that far off on this bike when the wheel is off the ground to make a difference based on my years of 4x4 experience. The front driveshaft of a 1988 XJ Cherokee is only a little longer then the GL1800's and it handles a 3" lift without any problem. I would be more suspect of the final drive unit itself or possibly the brakes. You can find the final drives from trike conversions on Ebay for $100 or less all the time.

IBTrike- He was not talking about air drag racing. If you "shake the hell out of" your vehicle when running with the wheels off the ground you have a balance problem somewhere. Get it fixed! You should be able to run the motor and turn the wheels in gear without a load, off the ground, without excessive vibration. This is a common test procedure in many service manuals. How else are you supposed to diagnose drive line noises? Nobody I know wants to hang on the bottom of the vehicle listening for noises while I drive down the road.

mrmegoo- I agree with you.

 

[MotorcycleBoy]

NJREF, upssnowman, BLK04WNG - Have any of you ever read a factory service manual? I am not talking about those cheesey Chiltons or Haynes manuals that most times refer you back to your dealers service department for anything more difficult than changing a wiper blade. I am talking about the full blown factory service manuals that the dealers service techs refer to when they are sent to training or in the shop. The one that will cost you $100 or more if you go order it. Dennis seems to know exactly what he is talking about and how to do it. I have read the procedure he describes in reference to the reinstallation and filling of automatic transmissions and in the driveline sections. It is no different than letting your motor idle while you listen to it. In this case you are letting your drive-train idle. I recently used it to diagnose my defective, wobbling, rear Metzler ME880 that felt like I was running on a rear tractor tire. I have no idea how I could have been riding down the road and standing behind the bike looking at the rear tire at the same time. Having a passenger ride on back and attempting to lean over far enough to see would have been a recipe for disaster.

 

[hennigm4]

"When we do a transmission service for example after refilling close to capacity the drive wheels are lifted, the engine started and the transmission put in reverse. After running in reverse for a time it is then run through the forward gears then put into park and the fluid level checked and so on. "

I saw them do this in Iraq on the Monster Garage series, they fried the tranny. Jessie James was not very happy with the mechanic, it was on a tricked out humvee. The mechanic said they did it all the time......Makes you wonder who's working on your vehicle and what problems may show up at a later time.

 

[MotorcycleBoy]

Monster Garage series and mechanic do not go together. Would you really trust your car or bike to a mechanic whose primary tools are a torch and hammer?

 

[riffraff]

You have a lot more weight spinning when running a car off of the ground. This tends to damp some of the forces. I would guess what you are hearing is the combined clearances of the respective driveline parts under the "no load" condition.

You could rig up a jackstand or something on the swingarm to lessen the angle of the dangle.

Does the noise change if you drag the rear brake just a little?

 

[Dennis Firth]

Bump for an Edit.

 

[wvnnva]

Megoo and Motorcycleboy, thanks and three cheers for your standing up for the original poster. All he did was ask a couple of questions and for some help. I don't remember his asking to be criticized or belittled. Yes, some of you were demeaning. Such small minds. Thankfully there are some "real" helpful people on this board and not too many pretenders.

What's the old saying, "you need to be careful for what you ask." :shock: :x

Now I guess I will catch it also. :roll:

Todd

 

[Terpen]

Hey Dennis, Saw this post from your profile. Your drive assembly will go out today.

FYI, old Tom from Aztec, NM who I ride with quite often, had some noise and slack in his drive train at about 180k miles and replaced it with one of the trike units I had. Said he can't tell a whole lot of difference and figured the original would probably have gone another 100k or so if the seals held out.

Drive units are cheap and good insurance. I have an idea (dangerous). While drive line failure is rare, I did see where a couple of folks had problems on the road this summer and had to scramble to change their's. Best I recall both were in Canada. Why not have these things available at different locations around the US and Canada. Shipping is the hardest and time consuming part of the equation. Anyone that has triked a bike knows you aren't going to get anywhere near the value out of the parts. So, instead of blowing them out, make them available for emergency repair. Only requirement is the recipient replace with a like unit once they are back home.

I have one that I have for myself and would be willing to make it available. Also have a rear wheel and tire that I could do the same with.

Had a fellow in Fairbanks help us out this past summer and his only request was that we pass it on.