GL1800Riders Forums banner

1 - 20 of 56 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,157 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I just had a conversation with some folks here at Edwards AFB. The topic under discussion was the mandatory wear of protective apparel. On Edwards you are required to wear long pants, brightly colored long sleeve shirt, leather shoes that cover the ankle, full fingered gloves and a helmet with shatter resistant glasses or full face shield. At night you must have 30 square inches of reflective material on the back of your upper outer garment.

There were 5 of us in the room and I was the only rider. What amazed me is their perception of motorcycle riders. They left me with the impression that they thought anyone who would ride a motorcycle with all the stuff listed above, except wearing a short sleeve t-shirt instead of long sleeves, was an idiot. Further they felt that it was their duty to protect motorcyclists from themselves. Because riders are not capable of rational thought, they need to create more stringent rules to ensure their safety. The comment was made that riders were seen to remove the brightly colored upper outer garment (usually an orange vest) as soon as the got off base. They then stated how silly that action was.

I guess what I'm getting at is, why do they care? Indeed why does anyone, who doesn't ride, care what a motorcyclist wears?

The Air Force is playing off the idea that more visibility is safer. You can't deny that, being more visible is safer. However, the phrase, "officer I just didn't see him" isn't just for motorcycles.

Volkswagon is running a series of comercials right now that involve crashes. They are just driving along when out of nowhere they get t-boned by another vehicle. The current version has two girls talking about the comercial and how silly it is when they get broadsided by an SUV. I'm sure the comment would have been the same, I didn't see it comming. When it comes to motorcycles and accidents I don't believe a yellow vest makes any difference. The guy who hits you would have noticed anyway.

So I state again, why do they care? Instituting helmet laws hasn't lowered the insurance rates. Accidents happen and no one is required to paint their car orange. I'm the one who is taking the risk by riding, it should be my choice. Yet we have many trying to make this choice for us.

So here is my proposal:
Before enacting any new requirements for riders, those writing the laws should have to abid by them as well. If you want to force me to wear an orange vest, then they should have to wear that same vest in their car with the climate controls off (no air conditioning, no heat). This should be mandatory for everyone that votes to enact that law. I'll bet it makes them think twice about their proposals.

It's easy to write laws when you don't have to abide by them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,295 Posts
....and why don't drivers of convertibles have to wear helmets?

On the other hand - I like the law in Wyoming that says motorcycles get to go to the front of the line behind the pilot car so that don't get pelted with construction debris.

I ride with protective gear - and have a reflective vest for special occasions, but you are correct in saying those that enact the laws mandating clothing should have to wear it themselves.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
552 Posts
Tell them to go F themselves. Who are they to tell you what to do, or what to wear? :roll:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,157 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
azblackbird said:
Tell them to go F themselves. Who are they to tell you what to do, or what to wear? :roll:
Well they do control the base...

Oh yeah, I guess I left that part out. My conversation was with the 95th Air Base Wing commander and the Security Forces commander. Though I might not use the same language as azblackbird, I understand the sentiment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,482 Posts
Please dear God, protect me from governments who want to protect me from myself!!!

David M.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,375 Posts
Do these people drive orange cars? You know, so THEY will be seen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,375 Posts
When I see one of those safety vests, I have already noticed that there is a motorcycle, then I notice the rider is wearing the safety vest.

I think a motorcycle is more visible by putting more lights on it. How about that? Bright yellow lights to the front and to the rear. Maybe some lights on the sides as well..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,425 Posts
I think that some motorists just aim for VW's; I know that I have in the past.:wink:

You make valid points, Rastoff. It's too bad that there are enough highly-visible motorcyclists around that give us a reputation of stupidity/insanity/drunkenness.
Due to mandatory rider training in Germany and Japan, motorcyclists are revered, looked-up-to, and respected as the most competent drivers on the road.
It's largely our own fault that non-riders think we're a pack of jack-a$$es.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,299 Posts
Rastoff said:
...I guess what I'm getting at is, why do they care? Indeed why does anyone, who doesn't ride, care what a motorcyclist wears?...

You’re not considering the psychological side of the equation.

Nearly everyone in our society has grown up with external control psychology…meaning that someone else knows what’s best for you. Since birth, someone has decided what time you will get up, what and when you will eat, and when you will go to bed. They told you where you will live, what school you’ll go to, and what friends you will have. Most have been taught this concept and further believe that it’s socially and morally correct…even an obligation. Young people can hardly wait to grow up, gain enough power, and then begin telling others what’s best for them.

These commanders you speak of spent a large part of their military careers being ordered around by others…now it’s their turn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
900 Posts
<RANT>
People seem to fall into two groups... Those who WANT people to be controlled - and those who have no such desire.

Personally, I fall into the second group. I'm vehemently (and vocally) opposed to the Government trying to legislate common sense. (Seems to me that the stOOpid people are out breeding the smart people. If the Government would get out of the way, the stOOpid people would find their own ways to balance the equation... But, I digress...)

I do, however, feel that great freedom should be accompanied by great responsibility.

Everyone wants the freedoms guaranteed us by the Constitution, but they don't seem to want the responsiblity that goes along with it.

We have all been riding long enough - or have been associated with those who have ridden a long time - to know either from personal experience or from the knowledge gained by listening to others, that wearing protective gear reduces injuries in many crashes (notice I didn't use the work "accident"!).

If you're involved in a crash - and weren't wearing protective gear - and it could be determined that wearing appropriate protective gear would have reduced the injuries associated with the crash... I think YOU should be responsible for picking up the bill for your medical treatment. Don't try to get your insurance company to pay for YOUR poor choice! Take responsibility for YOUR choice! Don't force the insurance companies to jack up MY rates because they have to pay huge medical bills for people who KNOWINGLY fail to take appropriate measures to protect themselves when they ride.

What I would like to see, though, is OPTIONAL catastrophic injury insurance. If YOU decide that you want to ride unprotected - just check the little box on the insurance form and ante up! That way the squids can help keep the insurance companies from jacking up MY rates!

Do I ENJOY wearing protective gear? Heck no! Do I WEAR it? You betcha! (But - believe me - there are times when I, too, make the stOOpid decision to not properly protect my soft, squishy flesh... Bad Will... Bad, bad Will!)
</RANT>

-=Margarita Will=-
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,486 Posts
RASTOFF,
when I was in the Army,'65-'68, motorcycles were not even allowed to be registered on Post. Those of us that rode, had to make arrangements for off Post parking.
It's their Base,they set the rules. You don't have to like it,you just have to do it!! :D
Ride Red,
the hobo
 
G

·
I'd bet a nickle it is a liablity-responsibility thing for law suits. Sayig that everything was done to insure safety probably helps the defense lawyers in court.
I'd bet it's another lawyers thing.

Pat
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,675 Posts
I work in the oil business (imagine that in Houston). I have read some statistics somewhere that say you are 8 times more likely to die working in the oil business then the average for all industry on the basis of hours worked. I have also read some statistic (although not from the same source) that says you are 12 times more likely to die on a motorcycle then in a car on the basis of miles driven.

My point is that you can look at numbers of "unsafe" things we do while working, entertainment, etc and find reasons why it is unsafe. Why do people pick only some "perceived" unsafe activities to try to regulate.

There is only one statistic I worry about, what are MY chances of injury or death. And it is my job to make sure I am comfortable with the risk I take, not someone elses and it pi$$es me off when someone else or the government gets mixed up in trying to tell me what is and isn't safe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
922 Posts
Their base their rules. Some Commanders will not allow a bike with more than 600cc on post. I think they feel it is an unnecessary risk, ridding a bike. Kind of like we were not allowed to get tattoos or sunburned even.
The Military has a different set of rules than the regular civilian populace. It tends to be much stricter. Around here you have to wear the vest all the time, if caught without it you get the privilege of bike ridding removed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,628 Posts
I was in Ft. Hood, TX in '69, and bought a scooter from a captain. I didn't have to wear any special gear (of course, that was years ago), and didn't even remove the blue sticker (for officers) and get a red sticker (for enlisted men). I never rode it in uniform, but it was a hoot when the guards at the gate would salute the blue sticker on my way in or out of the base. I took it to the local hock shop right outside the gate when I left later that year (wonder if they still have it?). :lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,252 Posts
when I lived on the west side of metro phoenix area..... Luke AFB is out there......

the service folks on bikes always had a reflective vest on. The back of the vest had a cross of reflective material that I thought looked like a target X marks the spot to aim for
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,156 Posts
Did they say anything about a drivers awareness course, or would that be too much work for them to put something together?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
824 Posts
I like hubby's idea.....

Every driver should first be on two wheels... That way they understand the feeling of being vulnerable... It also will aid Darwinien (SP?) selection because those that are truely capable of driving will still be around to drive...

Hubby plans on having his son on 2 wheels before driving a car... this way he'll learn... STUPID HURTS... he'll have plently of training since hubby teaches MSF and lots of time with us on the road... no squishy air bags to protect him.... he'll learn there are serious consequences to his actions.

A couple weeks ago a buddy of ours was hit by a 16 yo out driving the first day on his lic... (our buddy is fine with a broken colarbone) but this kid's step-dad rides and he got his tush handed to him... hopefully he learned an important lessen (at the expense of our buddy) and will become a very safe driver....

Motorcycle awareness in drivers ed classes an on drivers tests may aid in our safety but it is still up us to protect ourselves.

Ride safe!

Melissa
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
244 Posts
OK....Im confused here. It’s ok to take a three thousand pound weapon and get in it with a pretty dress and hi heals. Drive while putting on makeup. Talk on a cell phone and get pissed because others are having to break because your dumb ass is swerving. Then you automatically judge bikers because there ON A BIKE ? But it’s ok to fantasize about us while making love to your husband or you slip out at night and hunt us down for pleasure. GIVE ME A FREAKIN BREAK.
People never see themselves. These are the people that I really like to play with while riding down the Hi way. When I run up on them with my chopper I stare really hard. I show my teeth. I make jesters at there wives. I riv the engine up. They freak out. Then I pull out of the gas station. LOL .
If your not endangering anyone else, do as you please. Ride naked. Whatever. But im not going to put a CAUTION LITE on my fu*kin healment just so your retatded a*s can put on makup and talk and MAYBE see me. GERRRRRRRRR .I despize judgemental people. :twisted: :p :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
260 Posts
Here at Lackland (San Antonio), the contract civilian gate guards make us wear the reflective vest in the day time as well. But, as you say, they run the base, so I have to play the game if I want to go there. Fortunately, I am retired (from the AF, not civilian work), so I don't have to go there everyday.
 
1 - 20 of 56 Posts
Top