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I'm trying something different this year, I want to see if running 89 helps with the MPG drop off I see with Winter grade fuel, probably not but what the heck.
An interesting experiment. Remember that cooler weather can also affect mileage, and may affect your results.
 

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Thanks for explaining this. I have wondered about it. I used to think that anything over 10 would require premium, like in the old days, but I noticed that over the yers manufacturers of > 10:1 have recommended lower octane.
Gene there is a lot of other tech than the piston oilers that make this possible. Some pro and some con. The 4 valves per cylinder help with pumping loss. They help get the cooling intake charge in better and get the hot exhaust gases out faster and smoother. The 6 cylinder Wings have always been a water cooling and thermal challenge. This little issue is probably the biggest challenge for the horizontally opposed engine be it 2 or 12 cylinders air or water cooled. So the aluminum cylinders with no steel sleeve increased thermal efficiency by at least 25%. Thus turning the whole engine into a better thermal management system. And the marketing says it saves weight. What makes a lot of this engine stuff possible is Hondas near perfection of aluminum high pressure casting at engineering, production and cost levels. High pressure cast aluminum is much stronger, stable and pure. This why they can have cylinder bores with no steel sleeves and only a coating. Smaller heads packaged tighter. But by pushing the tech as they have. That's why we will never see higher compression pistons, cams, turbos or superchargers on these engines. Or even real tunes for that matter. The engine is thermally managed for Euro 5, EPA and the state that is consuming itself and slowly destroying America. Digitally controlling fuel, air, timing is made much more easy when you can thermally control the engine. That's half the battle. All this tech makes the engine pollution complaint and runs it's best at lower octane fuels. 89, 91, 93, 95 are pretty much useless to it. The engine management system will not advance the ignition timing enough and with no variable cam timing higher octane fuels are completely useless. Then one has to wonder why the bone heads at Honda did not put Vtec in this motor. Even a economy Vtec system would have been a complete game changer. A proven tech used in there car engines that could even make the engine more efficient mpg and power wise and maintain if not exceed all the pollution standards and still run on 85, 86, 87 octane fuels. Was it a packaging issue,,, naw,,, Honda can package up whatever they want.
 

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Gene there is a lot of other tech than the piston oilers that make this possible. Some pro and some con. The 4 valves per cylinder help with pumping loss. They help get the cooling intake charge in better and get the hot exhaust gases out faster and smoother. The 6 cylinder Wings have always been a water cooling and thermal challenge. This little issue is probably the biggest challenge for the horizontally opposed engine be it 2 or 12 cylinders air or water cooled. So the aluminum cylinders with no steel sleeve increased thermal efficiency by at least 25%. Thus turning the whole engine into a better thermal management system. And the marketing says it saves weight. What makes a lot of this engine stuff possible is Hondas near perfection of aluminum high pressure casting at engineering, production and cost levels. High pressure cast aluminum is much stronger, stable and pure. This why they can have cylinder bores with no steel sleeves and only a coating. Smaller heads packaged tighter. But by pushing the tech as they have. That's why we will never see higher compression pistons, cams, turbos or superchargers on these engines. Or even real tunes for that matter. The engine is thermally managed for Euro 5, EPA and the state that is consuming itself and slowly destroying America. Digitally controlling fuel, air, timing is made much more easy when you can thermally control the engine. That's half the battle. All this tech makes the engine pollution complaint and runs it's best at lower octane fuels. 89, 91, 93, 95 are pretty much useless to it. The engine management system will not advance the ignition timing enough and with no variable cam timing higher octane fuels are completely useless. Then one has to wonder why the bone heads at Honda did not put Vtec in this motor. Even a economy Vtec system would have been a complete game changer. A proven tech used in there car engines that could even make the engine more efficient mpg and power wise and maintain if not exceed all the pollution standards and still run on 85, 86, 87 octane fuels. Was it a packaging issue,,, naw,,, Honda can package up whatever they want.
That was an excellent explanation. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

Two comments.

My GUESS as to why Honda didn't fit V-Tec variable valve timing to the new Wing is because it would likely add aditional width to the engine, something the engineers deemed undesirable.

And regarding your excellent description of why there is no need to use higher octane gas than Honda recommends, that won't likely change the minds of Wing owners who circle their bike 3 times clockwise then 3 times counter-clockwise each time before starting it and using premium gas because it's the best and that's the way they've always done it. :)

Tim
 

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Gene there is a lot of other tech than the piston oilers that make this possible. Some pro and some con. The 4 valves per cylinder help with pumping loss. They help get the cooling intake charge in better and get the hot exhaust gases out faster and smoother. The 6 cylinder Wings have always been a water cooling and thermal challenge. This little issue is probably the biggest challenge for the horizontally opposed engine be it 2 or 12 cylinders air or water cooled. So the aluminum cylinders with no steel sleeve increased thermal efficiency by at least 25%. Thus turning the whole engine into a better thermal management system. And the marketing says it saves weight. What makes a lot of this engine stuff possible is Hondas near perfection of aluminum high pressure casting at engineering, production and cost levels. High pressure cast aluminum is much stronger, stable and pure. This why they can have cylinder bores with no steel sleeves and only a coating. Smaller heads packaged tighter. But by pushing the tech as they have. That's why we will never see higher compression pistons, cams, turbos or superchargers on these engines. Or even real tunes for that matter. The engine is thermally managed for Euro 5, EPA and the state that is consuming itself and slowly destroying America. Digitally controlling fuel, air, timing is made much more easy when you can thermally control the engine. That's half the battle. All this tech makes the engine pollution complaint and runs it's best at lower octane fuels. 89, 91, 93, 95 are pretty much useless to it. The engine management system will not advance the ignition timing enough and with no variable cam timing higher octane fuels are completely useless. Then one has to wonder why the bone heads at Honda did not put Vtec in this motor. Even a economy Vtec system would have been a complete game changer. A proven tech used in there car engines that could even make the engine more efficient mpg and power wise and maintain if not exceed all the pollution standards and still run on 85, 86, 87 octane fuels. Was it a packaging issue,,, naw,,, Honda can package up whatever they want.
After reading your explanation, Blast, I hereby declare myself to be an expert. Thank you so much for taking the time to write this cogent (look it up) post.
 

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And regarding your excellent description of why there is no need to use higher octane gas than Honda recommends, that won't likely change the minds of Wing owners who circle their bike 3 times clockwise then 3 times counter-clockwise each time before starting it and using premium gas because it's the best and that's the way they've always done it. :)

Tim
And then use an off-brand oil filter.....:oops:
 

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cost effectiveness. I'm a cheap sob, so regular fits the bill. Difference in mpg does not offset.
 

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The only reason I use premium fuel is I can't get anything less thank 91 octane without ethanol in it.....The 50 cents a gallon to me on a 25K bike is pointless but I know my ending will live a very long time as long as I never put ethanol in it.
 
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