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Question a mechanic advising a repair. Thank a mechanic, when you ask for and receive his advice. Many of us quit responding to guys who ask what they should do, then argue with the answer. As a mechanic, I am offering advice that I dearly paid for, in sweat, blood, and injury. I don't want it subjected to analysis, just appreciated for the gift it is. Take it or leave it, but I'm not your buddy advising you on how your relationship with your girlfriend is. I assumed you ask because of my experience, so don't denigrate it by arguing. I am not addressing this to you personally - just explaining that we mechanics aren't arrogant, just wary.
No disrespect to anyone on this or any forum, but no manufacturer in their right mind would publish their service bulletins, based on advice from any owner's forum. Customer feedback is taken into some account, but most is based on reliable results from service in the field.
I get and give advice on many topics on forums, but rely on the manufacturer, as the ultimate authority on service matters.
I'm glad you like your Caddy. I always wanted one, but by the time I got one, they sure have changed! Remember when you would joke that a guy with a fancy pickup truck, had a "Cowboy Cadillac"? Now, you'd take that term literally!
Asking for explanation <> arguing. Just an honest attempt to understand. And that's how a mechanic can earn respect and trust. I really can't think of a mechanic that wasn't more than happy to explain and help me understand. I can't say I always do, but I trust my senses when the BS flag makes it's appearance. If it does, I move on.

Engine's today <> engines 40 years ago

Oil formulations today <> oil formulations 40 years ago

I hear that in the 1940s, or around there, manufacturers recommended oil changes every 600 miles. I'm glad we've moved on from that. I don't hear anyone arguing against those crazy 3,000 mile extended oil changes. ;)

This forum is about GoldWings. I'm sure those diesels with 48 quarts of oil have their own owners manuals with their own recommendations and I highly doubt they are the same as the GL1800. I challenge anybody to get one up on the center stand. :LOL:

I get the feeling that we're not quite on the same wavelength here. I think I understand your perspective. I'd still like to hear and learn from Greg if he'll answer my questions.
 

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Please explain - or if I missed it, point out where you shared the details:

1. What was the issue/reason for bringing the bike to your shop? The failure.
2. What parts were replaced?
3. How was oil the cause of the issue?
4. What was the increased cost due to maintaining the bike by the book (8,000 mile oil change)?

Thanks.
Sorry for skipping this.
The one pictured in post #2 is a bad example to blame solely on oil. Although I often see burnt clutch plates when using synthetics, and he was using a synthetic, there were to many other factors to blame it all on the oil he was using. We have an oil assisted clutch, but he was using an oil filter blocking oil pressure ... so that could be a factor, so improper oil pressure can be a factor. Plus one of his oil pressure relief valves was seized which causes other oil pressure issues.

To answer your question more generally, when a synthetic oil used, and this is mainly on trikes, I'm often replacing clutch parts. More specifically, friction plates, steel plates, and other clutch parts. To a customer, the cost of parts and add'l labor to assemble a clutch pack on an engine that is already disassembled, probably around $600 bucks.
 

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Sorry for skipping this.
The one pictured in post #2 is a bad example to blame solely on oil. Although I often see burnt clutch plates when using synthetics, and he was using a synthetic, there were to many other factors to blame it all on the type of oil he was using. We have an oil assisted clutch, but he was using an oil filter not cataloged for a GL1800, and oil filter was blocking oil pressure ... so that could be a factor too. Plus one of his oil pressure relief valves was seized ... possibly another factor.

To answer your question more generally, and when a synthetic oil is being used, on trikes, I'm often replacing clutch parts. More specifically, friction plates, steel plates, and other clutch parts. Cost of parts and add'l labor to assemble a clutch pack, probably around $600 bucks.
Thanks for the explanation. Curious... would you say that the burned clutch plates are because of the synthetic oils or extended changes with synthetic? In other words, have you seen the same negative results with synthetics changed at 3,000 mile intervals vs synthetics changed at 8,000 (or more) intervals? Or maybe you haven't had examples to compare... just wondering.
 

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Asking for explanation <> arguing. Just an honest attempt to understand. And that's how a mechanic can earn respect and trust. I really can't think of a mechanic that wasn't more than happy to explain and help me understand. I can't say I always do, but I trust my senses when the BS flag makes it's appearance. If it does, I move on.

Engine's today <> engines 40 years ago

Oil formulations today <> oil formulations 40 years ago

I hear that in the 1940s, or around there, manufacturers recommended oil changes every 600 miles. I'm glad we've moved on from that. I don't hear anyone arguing against those crazy 3,000 mile extended oil changes. ;)

This forum is about GoldWings. I'm sure those diesels with 48 quarts of oil have their own owners manuals with their own recommendations and I highly doubt they are the same as the GL1800. I challenge anybody to get one up on the center stand. :LOL:

I get the feeling that we're not quite on the same wavelength here. I think I understand your perspective. I'd still like to hear and learn from Greg if he'll answer my questions.
Interesting conversation but this is my last reply on this, because things are reaching stalemate with no benefit past this:
The principal is the same. The application can be different. The principal is that fresh oil has more friction reducing properties than used oil. How long can oil be considered fresh? That is where new technology has it's place. But only to the point of tolerance. Manufacturers give a measure of tolerance, but it cannot cover every foreseeable application or situation. They try to cover the typical application, but you are free to adjust it to a shorter interval. Go to any owners manual. There is a disclaimer that refers to some applications on that particular vehicle that changes the measurement (dusty conditions, commercial applications, etc.).
That truck engine is no different in principle to your bike engine. Internal combustion engines produce carbon deposits, heat, contaminates, and metal grindings. All internal engines. Technology in the manufacture of engines has more to do with extended intervals, than the oil. Not that lubricants aren't better, but the principle is: oil protects against friction.
If you change the parameters of any of the factors considered in interval, you need to shorten interval, because contaminates and use, over time, changes those lubricating properties. Take the new synthetic makeups, and now you've thrown in other factors, such a wet clutches causing synthetic degradation, etc. As I said, the manufacturer gives a minimum requirement, and we decide whether that is adequate, or may want to shorten the interval.
The only way you know you are right to go as long as you can between changes, or what type of oil to use, is to tear down the engine and look. You may have zero buildup, or you may wonder how the darn thing kept running, with all the junk in it. Isn't a few miles less between oil changes cheap insurance? If you think not, then there is really nothing more to say about this subject. Go ahead and do your thing. You have been advised and disregard - okay. Oil threads typically lead to this.
My only solace, is that maybe someone who is more open to preventive measures, may have gotten some use out of this conversation. Cheers.
 

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Thanks for the explanation. Curious... would you say that the burned clutch plates are because of the synthetic oils or extended changes with synthetic? In other words, have you seen the same negative results with synthetics changed at 3,000 mile intervals vs synthetics changed at 8,000 (or more) intervals? Or maybe you haven't had examples to compare... just wondering.
I don't know.

However, if using synthetic, and one is tuned into their Wing they can do this test before changing the oil. It is best to have a properly service clutch lever, and its setting is on #1 for full travel.
  • get up to operation temperature
  • test ride in 1st paying extra attention to when the clutch begins to grab ... at 1/3 out or 1/2, 3/5ths, or 2/3rds ???
  • change the oil to GN4 conventional, do the same. Most are able to notice that the clutch lever does not have to be let out as for with conventional oil
  • don't believe that's a good test, then go the other way back to synthetic
 

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But only to the point of tolerance. Manufacturers give a measure of tolerance, but it cannot cover every foreseeable application or situation. They try to cover the typical application ...
That is so true and is why some oils on some Wings don't do well. The aftermarket oil manufacture is trying to make an oil perfect for everything they are marketing their oil for, and why Honda's oil will probably be always best. Honda's oil is specifically intended for their products ... nothing else. I've yet to see a Honda m/c oil commercial telling a Ford owner to use it in their Honda oil in their F150 pu.
 

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My only solace, is that maybe someone who is more open to preventive measures, may have gotten some use out of this conversation. Cheers.
I was as open as you or anyone else and I made my decision based on FACTS. :rolleyes: (Up until that line, I had respect.)
 

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I don't know.

However, if using synthetic, and one is tuned into their Wing they can do this test before changing the oil. It is best to have a properly service clutch lever, and its setting is on #1 for full travel.
  • get up to operation temperature
  • test ride in 1st paying extra attention to when the clutch begins to grab ... at 1/3 out or 1/2, 3/5ths, or 2/3rds ???
  • change the oil to GN4 conventional, do the same. Most are able to notice that the clutch lever does not have to be let out as for with conventional oil
  • don't believe that's a good test, then go the other way back to synthetic
Ok. Thanks for the information. (y)
 

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To clarify, I respect most everything Greg has to say and offer and admire all the effort he has put into helping so many in several different methods. I always pay attention-even if I don't personally agree.
But, to flatly state that a certain beloved conventional Honda branded oil is the BEST oil for the GoldWing is shortsighted. Without endless testing of every available oil (even those not spec'ed for motorcycle use) it's impossible to make such a recommendation, much less as a statement of fact. It's one thing to say it's my opinion that this (whatever item/maintainence practice/brand/etc) is the best but to broadly make such a claim, even based on plenty of experience, continues to be unfounded. I take it as an expert recommendation perhaps, but I will still continue to use a non-motorcycle oil until there is proof of it not doing a superior job.
 

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I was as open as you or anyone else and I made my decision based on FACTS. :rolleyes: (Up until that line, I had respect.)
Dude, who do you think you are? You can keep your respect. Someone on an internet forum who tells me they don't respect my knowledge, shows me that I obviously wasted way too much time on you. You argue and question anyone trying to help, with infinitesimal questions that lead to you just wanting to ask more - all the while with no intention of putting any to use. You obviously just like to argue.
 

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To clarify, I respect most everything Greg has to say and offer and admire all the effort he has put into helping so many in several different methods. I always pay attention-even if I don't personally agree.
But, to flatly state that a certain beloved conventional Honda branded oil is the BEST oil for the GoldWing is shortsighted. Without endless testing of every available oil (even those not spec'ed for motorcycle use) it's impossible to make such a recommendation, much less as a statement of fact. It's one thing to say it's my opinion that this (whatever item/maintainence practice/brand/etc) is the best but to broadly make such a claim, even based on plenty of experience, continues to be unfounded. I take it as an expert recommendation perhaps, but I will still continue to use a non-motorcycle oil until there is proof of it not doing a superior job.
I agree. I stick with the Honda stuff myself. But it's good to have some information to make an informed decision. (y)
 

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A GIANT THANK YOU to Gregg, I do listening when Gregg speaks, (he has more experience with wings in five minutes/than I have since 2002 when I purchased my first wing/and my second 2010 wing) AS you all know by now I am an oil changeOHLIC ....I just changed oil last week cause I'm taking a long five hour ride to New York next week... BUT I will be changing it again when I put her to rest for her winter hibernation, and I guarantee it will be the oil Gregg recommends................2010 trike'd out wing. with 60,000 (s)miles...

Ronnie
 

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A GIANT THANK YOU to Gregg, I do listening when Gregg speaks, (he has more experience with wings in five minutes/than I have since 2002 when I purchased my first wing/and my second 2010 wing) AS you all know by now I am an oil changeOHLIC ....I just changed oil last week cause I'm taking a long five hour ride to New York next week... BUT I will be changing it again when I put her to rest for her winter hibernation, and I guarantee it will be the oil Gregg recommends................2010 trike'd out wing. with 60,000 (s)miles...

Ronnie
A "long" 350ish mile ride. Yes, better change that oil! You might want to plan a change part way - don't want that oil getting dirty! Cheap insurance, doncha know. It'll certainly make you "feel" better. 😜

I am joking, but what a waste. Really.

I just took my 2017 on a 7 hour ride yesterday (1 hour stop for lunch) with the original oil still in it. (I assume - purchased it last August.) It's at 1,800 miles on it. Should I be worried? 🤔 Is my engine going to blow up? 😳

I changed the oil in my 2006 last fall at about 7,000 miles. Did my whole 16-day trip on it last month. It has 109,000 miles on it now with no major issues. Buttons sticking is about it. Bought it new and all miles are mine.

Both bikes will get oil changes in the next couple of months - the 2017 more due to time than mileage.
 

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I've been riding my 2001 with the same oil (DelVac 1 ESP 5w-40) in it since last August when I changed it a few months after I bought it. Since I didn't know when the last change interval was for certain and the first trip to Michigan's UP towing the trailer was coming up I wanted a fresh start.
Without digging out last year's log book I estimate the miles were aprox 55k and currently it has 61,500ish. Season is winding down soon so it will be change time before putting it away this winter and it will be ready for all the riding next year. It will by then have about 7500 miles on that interval and hasn't required any additional top off and still shifts great.
A "long" ride I haven't really done yet, but anything less than a round trip to the coast (any direction about the same for me) doesn't warrant a "fresh" oil change.
 

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Captron: I know you are speaking of winter hibernation and not an oil change after a ride. The theory of moisture contamination has been documented in several publications, over the years. Motorcycle Consumer News had some good articles about it. The theory goes on to mention why we should abandon the winter 'Once a month start to excercise' routine. Basically, condensation and restarting will mix an acidity into your storage oil, causing more contamination than just leaving it plugged in to a Battery Tender, until spring.
Some people change oil before or after winter storage. I prefer after, because of possible condensation build-up, in the crankcase during storage. Has nothing to do with the mileage and more to do with moisture contaminated oil, but if my mileage was less than 3,000 miles, I would wait until spring.
Don't worry - you aren't being too fastidious. You are following some good advise.
 

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On a side note: Wonder if anybody has ever estimated the impact on the environment unnecessary early oil changes intervals as caused. I read California made a regulation for Oil Change shops to list the car manufactures recommended oil change interval on the reminder sticker and stop the 3,000 mile myth.

I have a dumb question. How does not changing the air filter make the oil dirty? As the filter fabric gets more clogged does dirty air somehow get sucked in by the gasket seal?

And for the record. Shell T6 Synthetic (JASO MA, MA2 rated) / Honda filter every 8,000 miles.
 

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I did this online carbon footprint test a few year back when I was flying 100,000 miles a year and driving all week in rental car. I'm proud of my huge footprint.
 
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