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Oil Change Frequency

6K views 84 replies 34 participants last post by  networkguy3 
#1 ·
This is my first Goldwing (2016) and I know the manual says 8,000 miles between changes but I have installed a Hannigan GTL sidecar and plan to pull my Bunkhouse camper. I plan to use Honda filters and oil (probably synthetic), what would be a good interval considering my parameters?

Thanks, Robert.
 
#2 ·
There are many variables here. The best way to determine that is to pick a change interval, say 5000 miles and send your oil to Blackstone for a UOA. They can give you a good idea for your riding conditions. The way you ride your motorcycle has a lot to do with the needed change interval. If you ride lots of short trips in extreme weather, you will need more frequent oil changes than if you ride down the Interstate at the speed limit in 75 degree weather.

Many will chime in and say if you change your oil according to the owner's manual, you will be fine. Others will use a group IV or V synthetic and change their oil every 3K miles. I use a Group III synthetic and change my oil at between 5 and 8K miles. Blackstone told me on the sample I sent in that 7K miles would be fine for my riding conditions and the oil I am using.
 
#3 · (Edited)
No need to change more frequently unless it makes you feel better. Some claim to experience shift roughness after 4-5k miles but I have not (DelVac 1 ESP 5w-40).
As with any oil threads, you are going to get a lot of conflicting opinions. I submitted mine based on my experiences and research.
I also keep a small log book in the Wing (all my vehicles) to keep track of all maintainence. So far I've never exceeded the recommended interval per riding season (short).
 
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#4 ·
I like keeping things simple. I change my oil at 5,000 mile intervals, such as 85,000, then 90,000. Using round numbers divisible by 5 makes it real easy to know when an oil change is due. I use whatever motorcycle rated oil of 10w/30 or 10w/40 weight the local auto parts store has on its shelf. I do use Honda oil filters. Sometimes I use synthetic oil, sometimes dinosaur oil. IMHO having a sidecar and pulling a trailer shouldn't effect the oil change interval. It's more important to actually change the oil and filter on a regular schedule.
 
#5 · (Edited)
It is MY OPINION, that the 8K mile interval specified by Honda is too long. Personally, I cut that in HALF. The service intervals in the manual are "best case" scenarios. Most manufactures also list a "severe use" maintenance schedule and Honda puts a note in theirs about increasing the interval if you ride in rain, dusty, or wet conditions, or use full throttle. That essentially means every one who rides needs to decrease this interval.

And another couple of things to think about. First, if the oil you are using costs so much money that you can't afford to change it every 4K miles (or less), then I'd suggest switching to a less expensive brand. You are better off using a cheaper oil and changing it more often than using some super expensive oil that only gets changed every 8K miles.

And second, for the amount of money (and time) you spend sending your oil off to a lab to be analyzed, you could have just changed out the oil and filter. I believe it's false economy to try to sneak every single mile out of your oil before you change it, and those lab reports don't always tell the whole story anyway. You can feel your bike shift differently when the oil starts to get over about 3K miles on it. That's your bikes way of telling you it's time to change the oil.

Note: Attached schedule is from 2018 Owners Manual.

364414
 
#29 ·
First, if the oil you are using costs so much money that you can't afford to change it every 4K miles (or less), then I'd suggest switching to a less expensive brand. You are better off using a cheaper oil and changing it more often than using some super expensive oil that only gets changed every 8K miles.
Absolutely true, as is the inverse; just because you spent a lot of money on the oil, doesn't mean you can or should, extend the change interval.
 
#6 ·
Regrettably no 2018+ for me yet but the first oil change on my 2002 was just past 4,000 miles, after that the majority of my changes were shortly after 8,000 miles, I actually went 10,000 a few times and once 12,000 miles because I ain’t interested in changing oil in the middle of a trip. 545,000 miles later it’s still running great but I do wonder if 4,000 mile intervals might have changed Anything.
 
#7 ·
In my opinion and based on my experience, the only thing that would have changed was the amount of money you spent on oil and the amount of time you spent changing oil. Anything else would not have been noticeable.
 
#9 ·
@Fred H. I am surprised at your idea that the OCI is too long. I certainly do not have either the expertise or experience to argue.

My father always said he thought it was better to have clean cheap oil in an engine than dirty expensive oil.

My total bill for an oil change is around $35, so I don't feel bad about sending it to Blackstone once in a while.
 
#10 ·
Interesting thing I read years ago in a book on motorcycles, regarding oil change intervals, is that the US Government pushes manufacturers to suggest higher and higher oil change intervals, not because it is technically the right thing to do, but due to environmental concerns of oil production and consumption. That would not surprise me one bit if it was true. So for me, I will stick with the standards of yesteryear. It simply is a small and irrelevant cost differential changing oil every 3000-5000 miles versus higher, and nobody can say that changing oil too often if bad.......except for the tree huggers.
 
#11 ·
Actually, if you read some oil forum and used oil tests, changing oil in too short of intervals will cause more engine wear than "normal" intervals. The detergent package additives in the oil is dispersed relatively soon after new oil is put to use. More engine wear is found during this "cleaning" part of the interval than afterwards.
For me, I'm sticking with an annual oil change interval and/or the scheduled interval unless for some reason shifting becomes noticeable different.
Oil disposed/recycled properly isn't much of an environmental concern. And no, I'm not a "tree hugger".
 
#12 ·
I just follow the instructions in the manual, and change it every 8,000
 
#13 · (Edited)
I have no idea why new Honda motorcycles have no oil life monitors given the cost of these bikes but in cars oil life monitors have done away with standard mileage-based intervals for years. Engine rpm, idle time ambient temp, cold starts, fuel mileage, terrain etc are a much more individualized determination of oil life. Without these sensor inputs, Honda can just state an average mileage based oil life and likely that is conservative. I have a Honda CRV and live in moderate temps, don't use the car for short trips often and am not aggressive in my driving habits. The oil life monitor indicated
90% at 980 miles
70% at 3435 miles
50% at 5567 miles

So each 10% in oil life was about 1,000 miles I should therefore get about 10,000 miles before oil change BUT my next reading said oil change required. Why? 1 year elapsed. I don't ride more than 8,000 miles per year so a yearly oil change is required. However if I take a very long trip, the oil degradation is reduced (less cold starts, less temp changes, more highway speeds) so I would have no problem if I changed the oil before and after a 10,000 mile trip.

However, while we are ocusing on the regular oil change interval, the OP's question was about high load riding oil changes. I noticed Ford found that monitor oil change intervals average mileage was up to 10,000 miles, with trailer tow/high load driving the monitored average went down to between 5,000 and 75000 miles (the variation depending on load) Based on this I would estimate you should change oil at half the recommended interval or minimally yearly.

G.
 
#14 ·
Follow the manual.

While some people may have arguments and feelings that make sense on the surface, the FACTS are that there has not been a single oil-related issue or failure reported on a GL1800. That's 17 years of manufacturing and 20 years of service! There are many who over-maintain and refuse to let go of 30+ year old "Jiffy Lube" mentality. The only teardown of a GL1800 engine that I've seen posted on this site was at 100,000 miles with 8,000-12,000+ mile oil changes using various oils and the inside still looked brand new - you could still see the hone marks. Also, while some people think they ride in harsh conditions... they really don't. Not anything that the bike can't handle.

I have over 100,000 miles on my 2006 and most of it was pulling a loaded KwikKamp and a Bunkhouse tent trailer. No problems.

FACTS over feelings. Trust the maintenance schedule in the manual. Put the savings of money in the gas tank and the savings on time with your butt in the seat! ;)
 
#15 ·
As for automobile oil monitoring systems and suggested oil changes......again, is this designed to make a technically correct oil change interval, OR to reduce the number of oil changes as pressured by environmentalists. I know my 2015 F150 has me changing oil at over 10,000 miles, and that is just wrong.

Secondly........ALL OF THIS IS MORE TYPICAL "OVER-THINKING" THAT SEEMS ALL TO COMMON IN TOO MANY FORUMS ON TOO MANY SUBJECTS. It makes me laugh.
 
#20 ·
It sounds like a classic case of wrong conclusions taken from data.

When the detergent is doing it's job, it is holding the wear materials in suspension better. So naturally a sample taken before the detergent is broken down will have more wear metal in it versus old oil where all the detergent is broken down, and now all the wear material is no longer held in suspension. So the guy reading the oil analysis says look, this one has more wear material, it must mean more wear is occurring. No, it just means you captured more wear metal in your sample.
 
#24 ·
Those are not the conclusions reached by the lab report(s). Those are yours, but there is no winning an oil argument. Everyone should do their own research and draw their own conclusions on how often to change simple engine oil, not take my word or someone else's.
 
#36 · (Edited)
If you think your engine doesn't run better and your bike shift smoother following an oil change, you haven't been paying enough attention to how it runs before and after.
TOTALLY AGREE WITH THAT

In all due respect, if it "runs better" after a simple change of oil there must be things very wrong with it before that.
NOPE

I guess it comes down to 2 types of operators.
Those who are "in tune" with the machine.
And those who recognise something is wrong when it falls off or fails completely.
 
#25 ·
So try this. Call virtually any professional automotive or motorcycle mechanic, and ask them what they think of an 8K mile oil change interval.

Not the marketing folks, not the bean counters, not oil lab guys, and not the environmentalist. Ask the guys who actually tear down and rebuild engines for a living everyday what they think.
 
#27 ·
With all due respect, we're talking about GL1800 engines here. That's all I refer to. I don't go 8,000 in my other vehicles.

I've seen only one tear down of a GL1800 engine here and I know you saw it too. I referred to it many times including earlier in this thread. Granted, it's only one but it's all we've got. We've never seen an oil-trashed or damaged GL1800 engine.
 
#31 · (Edited)
Yes, I'm curious. How many GL1800 engines knowingly fail(ed) from "neglected" oil changed on Honda's scheduled interval?
About as many as from "extra" changes, I would suspect.
I assume you are aware of all the transmission failures that have occurred to GL!800's over the years.

Lubrication.jpg
 
#33 ·
No one has ever definitively found the smoking gun on the transmission problems or why some bikes transmissions fail and others don't. But it is a fact that the transmission is lubricated by the same oil as the engine, and the transmission gears have to move to engage the dogs properly, and this movement of the gears is lubricated by the oil. So oil and lubrication play a critical function in proper transmission operation, and lack of (or poor) lubrication can certainly cause problems in the transmission. It has also been reported on this very forum probably hundreds of times that owners can indeed feel a difference in the smoothness of shifting following an oil change. And all it takes is one or two occurrences of a gear dog banging against another gear dog for it to start to round off the corners of the dog and lead to additional shifting events and issues.

No one can say that any of this has been caused by lubrication issues, but no can also say that it hasn't. It has been shown that oil viscosity, type, and frequency of change intervals can be felt by MANY riders as having an impact on shift quality.

Personally, I want to do anything I can to PREVENT transmission problems from ever beginning in the first place, and it is MY OPINION that frequent oil changes are one thing I can do that will give my transmission the best chances of not having problems. Frequent servicing of the clutch fluid and clutch lever pivot is another thing I do for the same reasons.


Lubrication.jpg
 
#34 ·
Thanks to @Fred H. for tossing his opinion into this thread. I have never even considered that there might be an advantage for my transmission if I would change oil more often than my normal 5K mile interval. I do not want to deal with transmission problems. I can change oil a lot of times to avoid the cost of a transmission repair especially since I change the oil myself. I do try to shift as smoothly as I can, but I never stopped to think that might have benefits for the transmission.
 
#37 ·
Well, let me go down as one of the guys on this forum that can say that I cannot tell any difference when I change the oil on any bike I've ever owned, certainly not my GW. Runs the same, regardless, to me. The only time I could tell anything was when my drive shaft was going bad, and I can certainly tell some difference in new vs old tires. I change my oil at the first of the season typically. Usually 4-6K miles on the oil. I do it so I don't have to fool with it mid season. But, I have no issues going 8K miles on Honda dino oil.

Nothing wrong with "over" doing maintenance... I'm sure the guys who take care of Air Force One would agree with you. Suspect guys like Fred and Greg can feel some difference with new and old oil. I am not in harmony with my bikes on that level. I feel confident they will not be harmed by doing maintenance as recommended by Honda.

As for the OP on oil changes, considering his side car and trailer, I doubt changing at 5K vs 8K will matter at all... I would change it once a year or 8K miles, whichever comes first.

And I would never waste money on "oil analysis"...
 
#38 ·
Nor have I ever spent any money on oil analysis, but before I would accept 10k mile change intervals on my VW TDIs I read a lot on the particular oil forum and looked at analysis reports and talked with Blackstone labs. I've comfortably ran well past the recommended interval several times and many go twice that interval and the engines outlast the rest of the vehicle. Anyways, the point was that excessively short change intervals "could" (not will) lead to more engine wear than normal schedule intervals.
A member with well over 500+k miles w/o engine or transmission failure using normal (even extended) change intervals of various brands/types oil seems to lend credence to the robust design nature of the 1800. Many many more well over 200k, etc. Sure, some rare failures are certain to happen, there always will be some.
The fact that the transmission issue(s) seems to have been rectified in the 2012 and up models seems to show it wasn't a lubrication issue and as such Honda hasn't changed the service requirement.
Sorry to create a fuss. Now perhaps we can get back to that sythetic vs convention debate.....
 
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#40 ·
While I provided some info on the original question regarding high load oil changes at least according to Ford and other manufacturers, it is surprising to me that some members believe Honda would provide misleading data re oil change interval.

Honda built its reputation on reliability. I'll bet most of us bought Gold Wings due to phenomenal reliability. I bet few of us bought Gold Wings based on an extended Oil Change Interval. So lets put on the Honda Lead Tribologist lab jacket for a second. Documentation department asks what should we list as the oil change interval? Engineering says we have tested and found minimal wear at 10,000 but to be conservative go with 8,000 allowing for variables such as terrain, ambient temp, aggressive riding etc. Now Marketing, EPA, environmentalists, or Accounting says can you make that number 10,000? Engineering say no. Guess what number gets published?

Conversely lets imagine R&D Engineering tribologists found the optimum oil change less than 8000 miles. Who at Honda would force the recommended oil change interval to be raised 8,000? No one. You don't sell bikes on an extended oil change interval. You sell on longevity. Remember: the Oil Change Interval is not a cost to Honda therefore if its not a primary marketing factor it is most likely correct.

G.
 
#42 ·
I am a new GW owner, so I cannot offer any real perspective with regards to GWs.

However, I came out of the V-Twin world (Victory), and can offer observations from that point of view. The similarity is that the Vic engines are shared sumps, with the oil lubricating the engine, clutch and tranny. My experience is that the shearing forces of the tranny broke down the oil much quicker than a design without a shared sump. Heat also played some factor in oil breakdown, no doubt. It would become apparent on those bikes when it was time to change the oil, as the shifting got clunkier than usual. Once you changed oil, it definitely improved.

The oil debates were non-stop in the Victory community as well, but a good JAMSO semi-synth at 4k miles seemed optimal on those bikes.

I think most people wind up doing what they are comfortable with over time.
 
#49 ·
What was the Victory factory recommended change interval? I'm not intending to extend the debate, just curious at to what the service recommendation was and what viscosity (assume perhaps "thicker" in the V twin) was spec'ed.
 
#43 ·
From what I gather on this forum, Fred H. is a mechanic and has a good reputation as a mechanic on Goldwings. So, I think I will take the advice of someone who does this working for a living rather than keyboard engineers who think they know something about motorcycle maintenance.
 
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