Oil Filter Quality ?
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I don't look any farther than this. Hard to beat the brand and the price.
http://www.hondadirectlineusa.com/stores/product.asp?pid=18&str=4&ID=30377178
My local dealer thinks that oil filters are worth $14 each.
http://www.hondadirectlineusa.com/stores/product.asp?pid=18&str=4&ID=30377178
My local dealer thinks that oil filters are worth $14 each.
G
Guest
·I use only Honda oils and filters. When you have a $15,000+ motorcycle why would you try to save a couple bucks on an oil and filter change once or twice a year, and take a chance on having a problem, either with the product or with Honda when they question use of that product instead of theirs if it is a warranty claim.
HondaLineDirect has a good price and good service, but sometimes it is just better to buy from your dealer and maintain a good relationship.
Just my $.02
HondaLineDirect has a good price and good service, but sometimes it is just better to buy from your dealer and maintain a good relationship.
Just my $.02
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2,657 Posts
I got most of this info from Mike Guillory on the Crotch-Rocket list for bikes like the CBR600/1000 etc. and updated June 2002.
As time has gone on more has been added from various sources.
For my own use I picked the Bosch which if far ahead of the Honda for filtering and quality. The cost has normaly been around $5.50 ea. and I can find them at most local Auto Parts stores. Just in case I run out of the Bosch I do keep a Honda filter on hand.
Jerry
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Oil Filters that may work with the 1800
Automobile Filters - (About 2.5 inches long - fit reference Mazda RX-7 and Miata)
1. Bosch 3300 about $5
2. NAPA Gold 1365 about $6
3. Purolator L14622 about $5
4. AC Delco PF1237 about $6
5. STP S-02876 about $3
6. FRAM PH6607 about $3
7. WalMart SuperTech ST6607 about $2
8. K&N HP-1008 $9
9. Mobil 1 M1-108 about $12
SuperTech filters are made by Champion Laboratories who make Mobil One and Bosch filters and also some automaker brands. While they may not have the advanced filter media of the highest efficiency and highest priced filters, they are considered premium filters and will peform well.
Motorcycle-Specific Filters - (About 2.5 to 3 inches long) some may be too long.
1. Purolator Motorcycle ML16817 about $6.00
2. NAPA Gold 1358, Carquest 85358, WIX 51358 about $7 to $8
3. AC Delco PF2135 about $10
4. FRAM PH6017A about $7
5. K&N KN-204
Notes:
· Wix, NAPA Gold, and Carquest are identical.
· FRAM, Castrol, and Penske are identical.
Use of an automotive filter could be a benefit, if you really want the best protection. Newer high-performance filters like the Bosch and the Mobil 1 really are better and not more expensive. Instead of traditional paper filtration, they use a synthetic or mixed paper/synthetic medium that removes up to 98% of 8 to 10 micro particles, where conventional premium paper filters only remove 70% to 90%.
As time has gone on more has been added from various sources.
For my own use I picked the Bosch which if far ahead of the Honda for filtering and quality. The cost has normaly been around $5.50 ea. and I can find them at most local Auto Parts stores. Just in case I run out of the Bosch I do keep a Honda filter on hand.
Jerry
...................
Oil Filters that may work with the 1800
Automobile Filters - (About 2.5 inches long - fit reference Mazda RX-7 and Miata)
1. Bosch 3300 about $5
2. NAPA Gold 1365 about $6
3. Purolator L14622 about $5
4. AC Delco PF1237 about $6
5. STP S-02876 about $3
6. FRAM PH6607 about $3
7. WalMart SuperTech ST6607 about $2
8. K&N HP-1008 $9
9. Mobil 1 M1-108 about $12
SuperTech filters are made by Champion Laboratories who make Mobil One and Bosch filters and also some automaker brands. While they may not have the advanced filter media of the highest efficiency and highest priced filters, they are considered premium filters and will peform well.
Motorcycle-Specific Filters - (About 2.5 to 3 inches long) some may be too long.
1. Purolator Motorcycle ML16817 about $6.00
2. NAPA Gold 1358, Carquest 85358, WIX 51358 about $7 to $8
3. AC Delco PF2135 about $10
4. FRAM PH6017A about $7
5. K&N KN-204
Notes:
· Wix, NAPA Gold, and Carquest are identical.
· FRAM, Castrol, and Penske are identical.
Use of an automotive filter could be a benefit, if you really want the best protection. Newer high-performance filters like the Bosch and the Mobil 1 really are better and not more expensive. Instead of traditional paper filtration, they use a synthetic or mixed paper/synthetic medium that removes up to 98% of 8 to 10 micro particles, where conventional premium paper filters only remove 70% to 90%.
1800 Oil Filters
When it comes to oil filters, cost is no object for me. I go for the best quality, and from talking to tech at Amsoil, I was told by a head tech who knows about the development of the oil filter for the bike, that it is designed to meet or exceed honda specs. He said that exceeds it. I was told, if my memory serves me correctly, that it is a glass spun filter unlike the paper element of the honda filter. I have cut open the honda filter (messy job) and it is a simple paper filter. I have yet to cut open the amsoil filter. I was also told that this filter will in no way affect oil flow or pressures and/or in conjuction will the transmission.
I would like to know what you ultimatly determine and if any others have found a better filter. In my fleet I use amsoil oil filters, they are made by Hastings and boast a 1 micron or less filtration. If you call Amsoil you may find out more. Greg L.
When it comes to oil filters, cost is no object for me. I go for the best quality, and from talking to tech at Amsoil, I was told by a head tech who knows about the development of the oil filter for the bike, that it is designed to meet or exceed honda specs. He said that exceeds it. I was told, if my memory serves me correctly, that it is a glass spun filter unlike the paper element of the honda filter. I have cut open the honda filter (messy job) and it is a simple paper filter. I have yet to cut open the amsoil filter. I was also told that this filter will in no way affect oil flow or pressures and/or in conjuction will the transmission.
I would like to know what you ultimatly determine and if any others have found a better filter. In my fleet I use amsoil oil filters, they are made by Hastings and boast a 1 micron or less filtration. If you call Amsoil you may find out more. Greg L.
Filter prices are only one thing the dealers hose you on. Pay double plus for a filter to keep a good relationship with the dealer? :money1:
Shouldn't that be a two way street? Why would you want to take a hosing just to remain friends, friends don't treat friends like that! :crew:
Hal sells the filters at a reasonable price, make a new friend!
Shouldn't that be a two way street? Why would you want to take a hosing just to remain friends, friends don't treat friends like that! :crew:
Hal sells the filters at a reasonable price, make a new friend!
I go with Honda filters also. Shop around (read HondaDirectLine) or buy a case of 10 and split with a friend if you don't ride a lot of miles. The GL1800 filter has a built in relief valve. It is different pressure than the 1500. Many aftermarket filters list the same number for both 1500 and 1800. While they will "fit" they are NOT the same. I trust Honda on this one and won't get cheap at possible risk of an engine.
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Until someone comes up with hard proof that the Honda filter isn't as good as it should be, or that something else out there is superior, then I'm using the Honda filter.
If anyone has proof, start sharing it. I want links to independent on-line or published material. I don't want to see what Amsoil thinks about their own filters, either. Their distribution chain is suspect to begin with.
I want specs, and none of this "it's a automotive filter, but it may work fine" nonsense. May work doesn't cut it on a $15000 motorcycle.
If anyone has proof, start sharing it. I want links to independent on-line or published material. I don't want to see what Amsoil thinks about their own filters, either. Their distribution chain is suspect to begin with.
I want specs, and none of this "it's a automotive filter, but it may work fine" nonsense. May work doesn't cut it on a $15000 motorcycle.
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Filter
Never seen a filter do what a Wix can do.
Never seen a filter do what a Wix can do.
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2,657 Posts
Well mrgl02, whoever you are, if you really want to know how good the Honda Filter is compared to other get the SAE test results from the ones you want to compare to. All filters have to undergo SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) tests to prove that they meet the engine manufacturer's requirements.
Good luck getting them from Honda as they consider all techinical test reports to be Propiatary Information and will only release it as a result of actions by orgs like the NHTSA. When you get what you are looking for why not post it for all to see.
The SAE J806 test uses a single-pass test, checking for contaminant holding capacity,size of contaminant particles trapped, and ability to maintain clean oil. As an amendment of the J806 test, the multi-pass test also looks for filter life in hours, contaminant capacity in grams, and efficiency based on weight. The efficiency of the filter is determined only by weight through gravimetric measurement of the filtered test liquid.
Typical numbers for paper filter elements are 85% (single pass) and 80% (multi-pass). A new test, the SAE J1858, provides both particle counting and gravimetric measurement to measure filter capacity and efficiency. Actual counts of contaminant particles by size are obtained every 10 minutes, both upstream (before the filter) and downstream (after the filter), for evaluation.
From this data filtration ratio and efficiency for each contaminant particle size can be determined as well as dust capacity and pressure loss as a function of time. Typical numbers for paper element filters are 40% at 10 microns, 60% at 20 microns, 93% at 30 microns, and 97% at 40 microns.
A good filter has a strong steel can to withstand the high oil pressure from 60 to 80 PSI when cold, an anti-drainback valve that actually works without creating too much backpressure, a pressure relief valve that doesn't leak, and a strong paper element and cap that can with stand the pressure and flow of oil without falling apart.
The element media has to be able to trap small particles without restricting the flow too much. Cellulose (paper) media is used on economy filters and works OK (read FRAM or Honda or any of the low end filters like EMGO). The fibers in the paper acts as a mesh to block particles down to a certain average size, while allowing the oil to pass through.
Some manufacturers add other media, such as cotton, to the cellulose to improve its performance. There is synthetic fiber media for the high-end filters that has smaller passages to trap smaller particles, but can pass more fluid through it because it has more of them and there is also media that is a blend of these two.
There are also "Depth" filters that are usually made of synthetic material that has a passage size gradient to it. The deeper into the element the oil goes, the smaller the passages get. This way, large particles are trapped in a different spot than small particles, which allows the filter to hold more particles before it becomes too restrictive or "blocks".
Now please tell us how the Honda Filter measures up when compared to any other filter of your choice. I don't know the answer to that because Honda just won't tell what the SAE results are for their Paper Element Filters that come from a variety of different sources over time. You have to consider that Honda, like so many others, buys from the lowest bidder then markets it with their own part number.
Jerry
Good luck getting them from Honda as they consider all techinical test reports to be Propiatary Information and will only release it as a result of actions by orgs like the NHTSA. When you get what you are looking for why not post it for all to see.
The SAE J806 test uses a single-pass test, checking for contaminant holding capacity,size of contaminant particles trapped, and ability to maintain clean oil. As an amendment of the J806 test, the multi-pass test also looks for filter life in hours, contaminant capacity in grams, and efficiency based on weight. The efficiency of the filter is determined only by weight through gravimetric measurement of the filtered test liquid.
Typical numbers for paper filter elements are 85% (single pass) and 80% (multi-pass). A new test, the SAE J1858, provides both particle counting and gravimetric measurement to measure filter capacity and efficiency. Actual counts of contaminant particles by size are obtained every 10 minutes, both upstream (before the filter) and downstream (after the filter), for evaluation.
From this data filtration ratio and efficiency for each contaminant particle size can be determined as well as dust capacity and pressure loss as a function of time. Typical numbers for paper element filters are 40% at 10 microns, 60% at 20 microns, 93% at 30 microns, and 97% at 40 microns.
A good filter has a strong steel can to withstand the high oil pressure from 60 to 80 PSI when cold, an anti-drainback valve that actually works without creating too much backpressure, a pressure relief valve that doesn't leak, and a strong paper element and cap that can with stand the pressure and flow of oil without falling apart.
The element media has to be able to trap small particles without restricting the flow too much. Cellulose (paper) media is used on economy filters and works OK (read FRAM or Honda or any of the low end filters like EMGO). The fibers in the paper acts as a mesh to block particles down to a certain average size, while allowing the oil to pass through.
Some manufacturers add other media, such as cotton, to the cellulose to improve its performance. There is synthetic fiber media for the high-end filters that has smaller passages to trap smaller particles, but can pass more fluid through it because it has more of them and there is also media that is a blend of these two.
There are also "Depth" filters that are usually made of synthetic material that has a passage size gradient to it. The deeper into the element the oil goes, the smaller the passages get. This way, large particles are trapped in a different spot than small particles, which allows the filter to hold more particles before it becomes too restrictive or "blocks".
Now please tell us how the Honda Filter measures up when compared to any other filter of your choice. I don't know the answer to that because Honda just won't tell what the SAE results are for their Paper Element Filters that come from a variety of different sources over time. You have to consider that Honda, like so many others, buys from the lowest bidder then markets it with their own part number.
Jerry
Interesting discussion about oil filters (and oil, on another page on the site) http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Consum ... OilFilters .
Gordon
Gordon
G
Guest
·Man-O-Man Blackhawk...You really started something. :!:
If your bike is still under warranty, I don't know why anybody would use anything but Honda filters and lubricants. Do you want to get into a p..sing match with Honda and find yourself faced with having to prove to them that brand X filter or oil is "equivalent" to theirs after they deny your warranty claim? How deep are your pockets? Sorry guys ..NOT ME. For the possible very small gain in performance or life, it just ain't worth it.
When my bike goes off warranty, and I can be shown indesputable proof that another brand of oil or filter is better than what Honda recommends, then I would consider switching.
I must take a little exception to Jerrys comment that Honda just buys from the lowest bidder and slaps their label on a purchased item. I know that not be be universally true because I work with several parts suppliers to Honda. Honda demands some of the highest standards from its vendors in the industry....motorcycle, atv, automotive, small engine, etc. and they will pay more to get what they demand if necessary. That is why we all ride Hondas.
Is Honda perfect?...of course not...and neither is anybody else. But they are at the top of the list.
The firestorm of opinions about engine oils and filters etc by auto owners, bikers, and snowmobilers, et al, has been going on ever since the invention of the internal combustion engine, and I am sure it will continue unabated. I imagine that in the old days, people sat around and argued about what was the best feed for their horses.
Let The Games Begin!
Just my $.02. That makes $.04 now for me on this topic. I will go broke at this rate.
If your bike is still under warranty, I don't know why anybody would use anything but Honda filters and lubricants. Do you want to get into a p..sing match with Honda and find yourself faced with having to prove to them that brand X filter or oil is "equivalent" to theirs after they deny your warranty claim? How deep are your pockets? Sorry guys ..NOT ME. For the possible very small gain in performance or life, it just ain't worth it.
When my bike goes off warranty, and I can be shown indesputable proof that another brand of oil or filter is better than what Honda recommends, then I would consider switching.
I must take a little exception to Jerrys comment that Honda just buys from the lowest bidder and slaps their label on a purchased item. I know that not be be universally true because I work with several parts suppliers to Honda. Honda demands some of the highest standards from its vendors in the industry....motorcycle, atv, automotive, small engine, etc. and they will pay more to get what they demand if necessary. That is why we all ride Hondas.
Is Honda perfect?...of course not...and neither is anybody else. But they are at the top of the list.
The firestorm of opinions about engine oils and filters etc by auto owners, bikers, and snowmobilers, et al, has been going on ever since the invention of the internal combustion engine, and I am sure it will continue unabated. I imagine that in the old days, people sat around and argued about what was the best feed for their horses.
Let The Games Begin!
Just my $.02. That makes $.04 now for me on this topic. I will go broke at this rate.
Passion
It is sometimes amazing at the passion one sees over such things as oil filters. I would not want to put a piece of cheap crap on my bike, but considering the regularity with which I change my oil (and I won't dare get the oil discussion started by saying which one I use), I think my engine will be in good shape -- shoot, the engine on that wing will probably last longer than me!!!!
It is sometimes amazing at the passion one sees over such things as oil filters. I would not want to put a piece of cheap crap on my bike, but considering the regularity with which I change my oil (and I won't dare get the oil discussion started by saying which one I use), I think my engine will be in good shape -- shoot, the engine on that wing will probably last longer than me!!!!
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Jerry-Jerry Roebke said:
Would you please explain your "whoever you are" comment?
I sign ALL of my posts with my name, and my profile is filled out (and has been filled out for a long time).
I've been here the whole time that this board has existed (in this format) and was here for many months with this board when it had its old format.
Whoever you are? What a silly comment.
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22,503 Posts
Here is an interesting product. A metal mesh filter that is reusable.
http://www.scottsperformance.com/indexmain.html
Don't know how good they work, but I can say that we use similar metal mesh type filters on jet aircraft engines and test equipment.
http://www.scottsperformance.com/indexmain.html
Don't know how good they work, but I can say that we use similar metal mesh type filters on jet aircraft engines and test equipment.
I have cut open a few filters to get a personal view of their filtering material and construction.
Here is the short version, my opinion only:
Fram= poorest, Honda=looks good, Amsoil=appears best.
I too would like to see a published INDEPENDENT test of all brands.
P.S. It is interesting to note that many replies on all message boards miss their mark (e.g. two thirds of these replies are about cost when the question was about filter quality only). Just shows we are all human and want to share our opinions.
Great board, I'm learning a lot.
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Here is the short version, my opinion only:
Fram= poorest, Honda=looks good, Amsoil=appears best.
I too would like to see a published INDEPENDENT test of all brands.
P.S. It is interesting to note that many replies on all message boards miss their mark (e.g. two thirds of these replies are about cost when the question was about filter quality only). Just shows we are all human and want to share our opinions.
Great board, I'm learning a lot.
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2,566 Posts
Well, Jerry... you stepped in it there. Variety of different sources? I don't think so.Jerry Roebke said:
Every Honda filter that I've ever used in the last several years has been marked as being made by the same manufacturer. Toyo Roki.
They also build Suzuki's OEM filter.
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12,417 Posts
Not sure that this will help, but a goog place to cause more questions.
http://www.twocreeks.net/toby/oil_filters/index.shtml
Enjoy
Bulldog
http://www.twocreeks.net/toby/oil_filters/index.shtml
Enjoy
Bulldog
G
Guest
·Hi Fred:Fred H. said:
The SS Scotts Perf filter looks really good, albeit a bit pricy. I might spring for one if my bike was off warranty, but as I have stated many times/many ways, I will use Honda recommended filters and oils till then.
Thanks for the info.
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