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A while back we were talking about oil. The qustion was "is Synnthetic oil recomended for the Wing" So I dug out my owners manual and on page 154 it states. "Suggested oils are equal in performance to SJ oils THAT ARE NOT LABELED AS ENERGY CONSERVING on the API service label. So just what is energy conserving oils? Is this the same as synnthetic? Now I know there are great numbers of folks who have used synnthetic oil for a life time of service from there wings. Were not trying to start a war of words. Just trying to find out what's in oil that makes it energy conserving and why is it not recommended? Best Wishes to all...Mike Dory
 

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The oil additives (friction modifiers) in "Energy Conserving" oils such as Molybdenum disulfide and Teflon (PTFE) will cause a wet clutch like we have in the Goldwing to slip.

Energy Conserving oils and Synthetic oils are not the same thing although some synthetic oils do contain friction modifiers. Synthetic oils and synthetic blends are OK to use. Just be sure to look at the API symbol and put only the recommended oil in your bike.
 

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I only use oil that has the Jaso MA designation, it is oil that meets the standards for Japanese motorcycles with wet clutches and additives to deal with the shear of the transmission gears.This is the major difference in our engines and automotive engines. I know this is not an answer to your question of what are friction modifiers but it does tell you that MA oils are safe for your bike. Hope this helps with your oil choices

wikipedia
JASO
The Japanese Automotive Standards Organization (JASO) has created their own set of performance and quality standards for petrol engines of Japanese origin.
For 4-stroke gasoline engines, the JASO T904 standard is used, and is particularly relevant to motorcycle engines. The JASO T904-MA and MA2 standards are designed to distinguish oils that are approved for wet clutch use, and the JASO T904-MB standard is not suitable for wet clutch use.
For 2-stroke gasoline engines, the JASO M345 (FA, FB, FC) standard is used, and this refers particularly to low ash, lubricity, detergency, low smoke and exhaust blocking.
These standards, especially JASO-MA and JASO-FC, are designed to address oil-requirement issues not addressed by the API service categories.
 

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There is a circular label on the oil. If it is "energy conserving" it reads so in the bottom of this label. Those are the ones you should stay away from. Some synthetics have it and some don't.
 

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I only use oil that has the Jaso MA designation, it is oil that meets the standards for Japanese motorcycles with wet clutches and additives to deal with the shear of the transmission gears.This is the major difference in our engines and automotive engines. I know this is not an answer to your question of what are friction modifiers but it does tell you that MA oils are safe for your bike. Hope this helps with your oil choices

wikipedia
JASO
The Japanese Automotive Standards Organization (JASO) has created their own set of performance and quality standards for petrol engines of Japanese origin.
For 4-stroke gasoline engines, the JASO T904 standard is used, and is particularly relevant to motorcycle engines. The JASO T904-MA and MA2 standards are designed to distinguish oils that are approved for wet clutch use, and the JASO T904-MB standard is not suitable for wet clutch use.
For 2-stroke gasoline engines, the JASO M345 (FA, FB, FC) standard is used, and this refers particularly to low ash, lubricity, detergency, low smoke and exhaust blocking.
These standards, especially JASO-MA and JASO-FC, are designed to address oil-requirement issues not addressed by the API service categories.
Do you happen to have a list of available oils that meet this criteria ? I read in Stu Oltman's Wingworld column that Rotella T 15w-40 is one that meets the JASO-MA standards, but there must be more. It would be nice to see a listing of all oils that hold this standard.

Thanks, Dave
 
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I use oil that come in bottles or cans - it seems just fine and is recommend by people who make oil. :tongue:
 

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There is a circular label on the oil. If it is "energy conserving" it reads so in the bottom of this label. Those are the ones you should stay away from. Some synthetics have it and some don't.
And, now many of them say "resource conserving".

Someone here should take a crack at a list of oils that meet Goldwing recommendations. I notice that Mobil 1 Extended Performance 10W-40 is not resource conserving for those that insist on using car oil. I also notice that Mobil 1 15W-50, which was what a lot of wingers used for years, seems to be back in good supply. Also, several manufacturers are making oil for older cars and hot rods with solid lifters and those would probably be OK because not only are they not resource conserving, they have zinc additive for anti-wear, similar to most motorcycle oils.

Another tidbit is that the latest MCN has a reader question about using car oil and the response is that, due to government regulations re mileage, it is getting harder and harder to find car oils that will work well in motorcycles. They recommend using motorcycle oil. Flame me if you want, I'm just repeating what they said.
 

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Buy from Honda bike shop and take all the guessing and arm chair quarterbacking out of it
 

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Do you happen to have a list of available oils that meet this criteria ? I read in Stu Oltman's Wingworld column that Rotella T 15w-40 is one that meets the JASO-MA standards, but there must be more. It would be nice to see a listing of all oils that hold this standard.

Thanks, Dave
Dave
I do not know of any list of MA certified oil, but....
-Rotella T Triple Protection 15w-40 is JASO-MA.
I use this oil.(readily available and cost effective)
-Honda GN4 and HP4 are also MA...... HP4M has molly friction modifiers
-Repsol T4 10-40 syn/blend is MA
-Amsoil motorcycle oil is also MA
These are the ones I know off the top of my head. I'm not recommending any of these oils Just stating the one I know are JASO-MA
 

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Buy from Honda bike shop and take all the guessing and arm chair quarterbacking out of it
Around 15 years ago Motorcyle Consumer News had some petroleum engineers check a whole bunch of motorcycle and non motorcycle oils and list how they rated. My PC800 was only using Honda oil and filters back then as "only the best for my baby" was what I wanted.

Anyway, and I apologize here as I have long lost the magazine, of the 30 or so oils tested my wonderful Honda oil was way down near the bottom of the list! ARRRG! And what was at the top? Mobil 1 car oil (dont think they make MC oil back then) 15W-50. I also remember that Castrol GTX was in second place which made me feel a bit better because that was what I used in my Suzuki GS1000.

Wellsir, from then next oil change on always bought red cap Mobil 1 for my PC. Still running fine at 87,000 miles BTW.

Now I am sure that oils have changed quite a bit over the last 15 or so years and motorcycles certainly have, but I have 4 quarts of Mobil 1 15W-50 out in my garage that I am going to be putting in my Wing come spring. And I would not be suprised if I used it and it only from then on.
 

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A lot has changed in the past 15 years.

One would think that if the Mfg. of the Motorcycle puts their name on the Oil, it would be the best to use. :bow:

But who knows, because they don't tell you, who made the oil.:shrug:

Some dealers have told me that if I had an extended warranty claim I would have to show that I used Honda Lubricants.:twisted:

Rather than fight the battle, I just buy Oil & filters from HDL and keep the receipts.:roll:

Had an Engine Builder who I highly respect, tell me once, that it didn't make as much difference what brand you used, what was more important, was to keep it changed.:thumbup:
 

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Had an Engine Builder who I highly respect, tell me once, that it didn't make as much difference what brand you used, what was more important, was to keep it changed.:thumbup:
I agree with your builder. Many will not tho. To the OP's question, "what make's it energy conserving?" You will notice that all of the EC oil's are 10w30 or thinner oil. That is what make's them EC. It's thinner so the oil pump doesn't use as much energy to pump it. It take's a lot more power/energy to pump 20w50 than it does 10w30. If you have ever primed an engine with different weight oil's. You will see exactly what I'm talking about.
Disclaimer: I am in no way an oil expert. Take this for what ever it mean's to you.
 

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A lot has changed in the past 15 years.

One would think that if the Mfg. of the Motorcycle puts their name on the Oil, it would be the best to use. :bow:

But who knows, because they don't tell you, who made the oil.:shrug:

Some dealers have told me that if I had an extended warranty claim I would have to show that I used Honda Lubricants.:twisted:

Rather than fight the battle, I just buy Oil & filters from HDL and keep the receipts.:roll:

Had an Engine Builder who I highly respect, tell me once, that it didn't make as much difference what brand you used, what was more important, was to keep it changed.:thumbup:
From what I've heard and makes sense to me, if a manufacture such as Honda says you have to use there products to keep a warranty in force, then they must provide them free.
 

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And, now many of them say "resource conserving".

Someone here should take a crack at a list of oils that meet Goldwing recommendations. I notice that Mobil 1 Extended Performance 10W-40 is not resource conserving for those that insist on using car oil. I also notice that Mobil 1 15W-50, which was what a lot of wingers used for years, seems to be back in good supply. Also, several manufacturers are making oil for older cars and hot rods with solid lifters and those would probably be OK because not only are they not resource conserving, they have zinc additive for anti-wear, similar to most motorcycle oils.

Another tidbit is that the latest MCN has a reader question about using car oil and the response is that, due to government regulations re mileage, it is getting harder and harder to find car oils that will work well in motorcycles. They recommend using motorcycle oil. Flame me if you want, I'm just repeating what they said.
Most use 'resource conserving' now. Check the MobilOne, they are not using energy conserving now that I can find.
 
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