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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Changed out the motor on my 1800 everything went well... started right up (after I plugged the bank angle sensor in). Had some air in the line on the clutch so I bled it. It went solid.... No air left, but the clutch will not disengage and the pull on the handle is solid half way in. Put it on the center stand and ran it through the gears, but when you get on the back brake it will kill the engine even with the clutch pulled in (as far as it will go) It doesn't even try to disengage as far as I can tell. Took out the slave cylinder and the rod is free. Piston in the slave cylinder is free and you can push it in by hand and the lever will push it out.
Engine was from an '03 a known good engine, soft deer hit, sat inside for two years without running. Feels like something is bound up in the clutch itself? Also it has a bit of a rattle sitting idling... Almost a bearing sound, but I am assuming that is the clutch basket rattle people talk about? Mine never did it.

Any ideas before I pull the clutch?

Thanks in advance...:thumbup:
 

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Sounds like the clutch plates are stuck together. I have see this on cars and trucks that have sat a while You might have to pull the clutch pack to separate them with out damaging them.
 

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:agree: I had a 1941 willis jeep and the cluch was stuck to the pressure plate
 

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I would remove the slave cylinder and then squeese the clutch lever to see if it travels all the way to the handlebar and pushes the rod out all the way. If that is good then I would add about a half can of seafoam to the oil and run the engine for an hour or so and then try it again. The seafoam has freed sticky clutches for me in the past. Once it frees change the oil.
 

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Steve.Try bleeding the clutch master at the banjo bolt first then down at the slave until the lever has consistent pressure when you pull it in and release it.

Sounds like you still got air in the line.And you have to purge the master first then the slave.
 

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Make sure that the slave cylinder mounts flush to the block. Any debris or misalignment will cause the same reaction.
 

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Hum??

This is a good one.

Could be air, really do not think so. Air compresses, fluid does not. Air is spongy or not firm.

The 1800 clutch is not like other bikes. It is an oil assisted clutch.

It should not have any rattle at a clutch basket, in the clutch cover there is an oil port that enters the center of the clutch assembly and holds the clutch closed with oil pressure .

There is another port at the rear of the the engine, but inside the engine that channels this oil flow to the clutch cover. The pressure plate in the 1800 is different too, it is a spring finger type assembly . Not springs and bolts .

I dunno, any used engine, you take your chances, impact, trash, sitting and dirt or whatever gets into something.

Braking and a slide during a so called soft deer impact, could maybe spin the nut on the clutch basket, break the staked nut loose that holds the basket.

If you check the air, break the banjo connections, all that is fine, something going on in the clutch area.

Slave cylinder stuck???

I dunno, one thing at a time I guess.
 

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Try putting in fifth gear (engine off)... Pull in clutch lever and rock the bike back and forth (may require a bit a force)... This sometimes can make a stuck clutch release...

:doorag::doorag::doorag:
 

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I have an 84 standard and exhibited the same problem you have. I put it on the center stand. Pulled and tied the clutch in against the grip. Put it in 4th or 5th gear and rocked the rear wheel forward and backward a few times. It freed right up. Just like ed z suggested. I did all of the same things you tried but that actually got it freed. I think it was the combination of forward and backward motion that broke it free. Been 3 years and 10k miles and not a minutes trouble with the clutch.

Even though the engine sat inside there was still enough moisture in there to cause the clutch plates to freeze together.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Update still stumped...

Haven't been back over to work on it, but stopped by the shop this morning to pick up some stuff and for the fun of it, pulled the clutch lever. Felt perfect. Wow! It solved itself overnight! Points to Rocky's air in the line or MC theory being correct. Stopped by after lunch to show my wife it was ok now, and the lever was stiff (solid) again. Didn't start it either time.

As to the suggestions re: the slave cylinder, it has done exactly the same thing with two different slave cylinders, both free on the bench, but solid once bled out and in the system. I think the casing of the slave system is flat, but I will pull it again to make sure there is nothing holding it away from the block. When holding the lever in the "solid" position and then opening the bleed valve, solid fluid comes out until the lever bottoms. Kinda agree with Kit that the air if it is in the system would be squishy, not solid... Course that is just me... Been wrong a LOT in my life! Does air act differently in the MC than in the rest of the system?

I am going over in a few minutes and going to bleed the banjo bolt on the MC and see what that does. I may also change out the hydraulic line between the MC and slave cylinder, as I have an extra. I am thinking (with the free flow this morning) there might be an obstruction inside the line(?) that opened up overnight and with the flow through it this morning closed back up with the pressure on it. (?)

I will also do whatever I can to see if the plates are stuck and what it will take to loosen them up. I am really tempted to ride it and see if I can break it loose with the throttle and brake. Nowhere good to do it at the shop though without getting in trouble with traffic...

Bad idea probably, but how much throw does the clutch slave cylinder have and how much pounds pressure does normal clutch operation require? Thinking seriously about using a small puller (like a steering wheel puller) on the bolts where the slave cylinder bolts to the block and applying a LITTLE bit of pressure to the rod and see if the hydraulic system or the clutch system is the issue????

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it.
 

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Try putting in fifth gear (engine off)... Pull in clutch lever and rock the bike back and forth (may require a bit a force)... This sometimes can make a stuck clutch release...

:doorag::doorag::doorag:
Very good suggestion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
ok.. Just got back from the shop... Still stumped, but a little more enlightened... Short story, it's hot and I gave up... Long story:

Hydraulics check out completely. Changed out clutch hose, bled everything top and bottom, checked the slave cylinder for operation, still solid half way in on the lever. Rocked the bike, put in seafoam and ran it. Rocked it some more... Clutch is still solidly engaged.

Pulled and checked the the slave cylinder again. Decided to check the rod depth from the front plane of the mounting surface. On the replacement motor 1/2" recess. Checked the same measurement on the bad tranny motor 5/16". 3/16" difference. Started playing with it... Pulling out the rod and quickly pushing it in, the replacement motor had a hollow thud. The bad tranny motor has a soft click with the same motion. Checked it again. Still had distinct difference in the sound and feel of the rod.

Pulled the clutch cover on the bad tranny motor and as I look at it, my best guess is that either the snap ring that holds the clutch lifter plate is dislodged (possible easy fix) or the bearing that runs in it has disintegrated.... (GRRR) (No detectable metal or parts in the oil that we drained out of it)The clutch joint piece on the replacement motor is resting against the back of the case and when you push the rod in, the thud is reverberating in the clutch cover. You can feel the rod hitting the cover by holding your hand against it and forcefully pushing the rod in. You cannot on the bad tranny motor, it just has a soft clicking sound when it goes in. The hydraulics are not working because the rod is already solid against the back of the case. There is no mechanism in place to disengage the clutch. The clutch basket assembly is intact as the clutch is engaged( if not locked up). Don't know if that makes any sense at all, but the clutch cover comes off tomorrow to either prove or disprove my theory. Still don't understand how this got messed up by what the PO described to me and it is someone I trust????

More of the saga tomorrow.... Thanks for all the help!
 

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Sounds like you'll be finding issues with the lifter joint on the clutch basket...
 

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rock it

Try putting in fifth gear (engine off)... Pull in clutch lever and rock the bike back and forth (may require a bit a force)... This sometimes can make a stuck clutch release...

:doorag::doorag::doorag:
:agree::agree::agree:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Sounds like you'll be finding issues with the lifter joint on the clutch basket...
:agree: although I wish it were something else...
 

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did u ever get the clutch working ? or maybe u are still working on it ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
ok... Since you asked...

The motor I bought was in a bike that had a close encounter with a deer and then the bike was sold to a wrecking yard. The bike was known to me and I had talked with the PO and got the scoop on it. I then called the wrecking yard and inquired about this specific motor. He tried to sell me another he had, but I wanted this one.

We worked a deal after about a week of haggling and I went and picked up the motor. Got it in and the clutch problem presented itself. We finally pulled the back cover (in the frame) to check the lifter plate and it's mechanism, as this is where we had deduced the problem to be. When we got the clutch open, the snap ring that held the lifter plate to the clutch inner basket was not in place. Exactly what we expected to find, except the ring was nowhere to be found... Found a mini camera to look inside the motor, and no pieces...

Tried to contact the wrecking yard and they would not return my calls. Finally pulled the ring out of the old motor and put it in and closed up the case.... We had clutch AND a terrible rattle.

Clutch cover back off. Clutch basket removed. Everything looked ok UNTIL we looked at the diagram and there was a missing washer behind the inner clutch basket. Took the clutch out of the old motor and found the washer we needed. Reassembled the clutch and all is well with no rattle. NOW I WAS HOT!

Finally got through to the guy at the wrecking yard. He confessed had tried to sell me the other motor because he had sold the clutch out of this one and didn't want to tell me. He bought a clutch off ebay and had one of his "guys" (notice I did NOT say mechanic) put it in. He had left out the snap ring and the washer and only torqued the nut with an impact wrench.:wrong:

It looks like there may be a small claims court case.... I will not eat the labor this caused. He said he would reimburse me for the missing two parts and the gaskets... NOT!:wrong:

...and that is the SHORT version!

Going for a shake down ride this afternoon and will report later... As of the short trial run without some of the plastic, I am all smiles.:thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
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