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How many with 10 or more years of street riding experience have taken a MSF riding course.
Poll--Riders with 10 or more years experience on STREET BIKE
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681 Posts
ERC course in 2000, and 2003
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13,862 Posts
i had a poor experience with a course a couple years ago, and would never take one myself. the next person may love it, but no on me doing it.
they showed my wife a terriable dumb way to make a right corner. she had ridden for years, took the course only to get a regular license without doing the dmv test.
they gave her a rebel 250, the same size and weight as the schwin i rode as a youth. showed her to pull up to the stop sign with the front wheel at a 90 degree angle to the new street. look and then turn the bike hard right and go. works on a schwin, not on a real motorcycle.
first time out after this new method in class, over goes the new 1100 shadow spirit. lets see she had 4 000 miles of experience on an 1100 spirit before this new method, made less than 2 miles after the new method. i would have dumped it also, given those instructions.
of course i would have left the course at that minute and demanded my cash returned on the spot, as soon as they told me something so stupid.
these were state certified instructors, i certify they are incorrect.
your instructors and experiences may be better, i sure hope so. this one wasnt worth a darn.
by the way, laura has about 10 000 miles on her 1100 spirit since then, and by useing my corner methods has stayed upright throughtout.
loren
they showed my wife a terriable dumb way to make a right corner. she had ridden for years, took the course only to get a regular license without doing the dmv test.
they gave her a rebel 250, the same size and weight as the schwin i rode as a youth. showed her to pull up to the stop sign with the front wheel at a 90 degree angle to the new street. look and then turn the bike hard right and go. works on a schwin, not on a real motorcycle.
first time out after this new method in class, over goes the new 1100 shadow spirit. lets see she had 4 000 miles of experience on an 1100 spirit before this new method, made less than 2 miles after the new method. i would have dumped it also, given those instructions.
of course i would have left the course at that minute and demanded my cash returned on the spot, as soon as they told me something so stupid.
these were state certified instructors, i certify they are incorrect.
your instructors and experiences may be better, i sure hope so. this one wasnt worth a darn.
by the way, laura has about 10 000 miles on her 1100 spirit since then, and by useing my corner methods has stayed upright throughtout.
loren
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3,872 Posts
I started riding in 1967 and never had any formal training until I took an MSF ERC course in 1994. I thought I knew everything but was amazed at how much I learned. Two minor things that stand out is making slow, tight turns and leaving the bike in 2nd gear while doing that. No jerking and smooth as can be. Would recommend it (MSF course) to anyone.
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13,221 Posts
I've been riding 38 years and still thinking about a ERC course. Maybe after another 38 years of riding I'll take one. LOL... (I'm Only Serious!)
I think the main reason I haven't taken one is that I've seen too many people that have taken it and I wonder what they learned or gained from it. They didn't have a clue how to ride a bike. I've also ridden with a few instructors over the years that were unsafe.
I'm also afraid they might want to change any bad habits I have that has kept me alive through the years!
Am I too old to learn? Probably not! Am I too stubborn to learn? Probably!
I did go to the "School of Asphalt and Trees" when I was young. I tasted the asphalt a few times back then and I know I don't want to do it now that I am older.
I think the main reason I haven't taken one is that I've seen too many people that have taken it and I wonder what they learned or gained from it. They didn't have a clue how to ride a bike. I've also ridden with a few instructors over the years that were unsafe.
I'm also afraid they might want to change any bad habits I have that has kept me alive through the years!
Am I too old to learn? Probably not! Am I too stubborn to learn? Probably! I did go to the "School of Asphalt and Trees" when I was young. I tasted the asphalt a few times back then and I know I don't want to do it now that I am older.
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1,871 Posts
took the MSF course before I bought my first Wing .... took the ERC last year after 22 years on Wings ... will take it again next year ... roads are getting more crowded and I'm riding on more challenging roads .... so I don't see a downside to refreshing my skills or learning new ones ...
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561 Posts
I'm in Red's camp on this one, though I didn't learn the hard way. I've haven't dumped in 21 years and hope I never do. I have a friend who used to race bikes professionally, who has given me a few pointers, but other than that I'm self taught.
I was hit by a pickup truck, but that's another story...
I was hit by a pickup truck, but that's another story...
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97 Posts
riding on and off since 1974 (first bike: kawasaki mach III - wonder how i survived that??). my major period of really learning how to ride was in the mid 80s when living in japan. rode the mountain roads every weekend. fantastic once away from tokyo. sport bikes were VERY popular there so had lots of opportunity to learn from others.
finally took an MFS course about a month ago. pretty good but i also do a lot of (bike related) reading as well. the main thing that helps me is being 110% aware of whats going on around me at all times. there's a couple good books out now dont remember the exact title but something like "sport riding technique". then of course there is the classic "twist of the wrist" (but i enjoyed the sport riding book better - better pictures and more geared to the street rider).
although i do recommend the mfs course to (especially) new riders, after several years of riding, i don't know how much you are going to get out of going 15 - 18 mph in a parking lot on a 250cc bike. i do plan to take the advanced course on my own bike sometimes later this summer. what was really kind of funny about the MFS course was that there were some people that were brand new to riding and they ended up with a better score than me on the riding portion (i got like a 94 but some of the new guys scored higher - even a couple 100s). we did have a very good instructor. i was happy with my score - i now get a 10% insurance discount.
gw.
finally took an MFS course about a month ago. pretty good but i also do a lot of (bike related) reading as well. the main thing that helps me is being 110% aware of whats going on around me at all times. there's a couple good books out now dont remember the exact title but something like "sport riding technique". then of course there is the classic "twist of the wrist" (but i enjoyed the sport riding book better - better pictures and more geared to the street rider).
although i do recommend the mfs course to (especially) new riders, after several years of riding, i don't know how much you are going to get out of going 15 - 18 mph in a parking lot on a 250cc bike. i do plan to take the advanced course on my own bike sometimes later this summer. what was really kind of funny about the MFS course was that there were some people that were brand new to riding and they ended up with a better score than me on the riding portion (i got like a 94 but some of the new guys scored higher - even a couple 100s). we did have a very good instructor. i was happy with my score - i now get a 10% insurance discount.
gw.
Quote:
Never have taken a MSF course, probably never will. 35 years of riding motorcycles and being professional truck driver for many years have taught me that defensive driving and awareness of your surroundings are paramount to survival. The course is probably a good thing for many, but don't feel the need here.
That was my third bike, from a Honda S90 to a Yamaha 125 to a Mach III. Incredibly fast, handled like crap and I probably should have killed myself many times over.
Never have taken a MSF course, probably never will. 35 years of riding motorcycles and being professional truck driver for many years have taught me that defensive driving and awareness of your surroundings are paramount to survival. The course is probably a good thing for many, but don't feel the need here.
MSF Course
I started riding in 1968 when I was 15 1/2.
I rode until 1985 and took a break while raising a child. Returned in 1993 and took my first MSF course in 2000 the Beginner Riders Course.
I took the ERC in 2002 and in 2004 I became a MSF "RiderCoach."
That's my story.
VA-Deano
I started riding in 1968 when I was 15 1/2.
I rode until 1985 and took a break while raising a child. Returned in 1993 and took my first MSF course in 2000 the Beginner Riders Course.
I took the ERC in 2002 and in 2004 I became a MSF "RiderCoach."
That's my story.
VA-Deano
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88 Posts
My riding experience dates back to 1971 with about 12 different bikes and have taken various MSF courses three times, the first when I joined the USAF and wanted to ride on base. It was a requirement to get your base decals. :?
MSF/ERC
Been riding since 55 total miles about 2,000,000 down 3 times always my fault (speed, not paying attention and an Elk at midnight.} Yah I take the courses just as a refresher doesn't hurt anybody to take it. If you got a stupid instructor don't listen to him.
Kee :arrow: w1: p the shiny side up
Been riding since 55 total miles about 2,000,000 down 3 times always my fault (speed, not paying attention and an Elk at midnight.} Yah I take the courses just as a refresher doesn't hurt anybody to take it. If you got a stupid instructor don't listen to him.
Kee
:arrow: w1: p the shiny side upStreet riding for 42 years, long distance motorcycle touring for 31 years, I took the ERC the first time in 2001, learned a lot of things, and renewed my ERC in 2003. The ERC cost is refunded by Honda Rider's Club and the certification also gets me a discount on my motorcycle insurance.
To sum it up...I learn a few things, get reminded of others, the cost is refunded and I get a discount on my insurance, can't beat a deal like that! :s27:
To sum it up...I learn a few things, get reminded of others, the cost is refunded and I get a discount on my insurance, can't beat a deal like that! :s27:
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312 Posts
Took it when i first learned in 82 then again in 2001
I take the ERC about 3 times a year taught by our World Champion Drill Team, only because I like to ride slow, and ride around in circles.
There's one thing I do take exception to and like to argue my point on almost every time I take the course, and thats my two fingering the clutch and front brake. I used to race professional motocross and either one or two fingered my clutch and front brake while racing. The rest of my hand was wrapped around the handlebar grips holding on for dear life over the whoops and the jumps.
The ERC instructors (both Drill Team and MSF) contention is that if I ever have a bad accident and crash, I will lose my fingers (the ones wrapped around the grip) because they are all not covering the brake or clutch and the levers will sever them off.
This is about the biggest crock of sh!t I have ever heard!
Now here's a real life scenario that happened to me and a couple of my friends. We were all riding our bikes, I was on a V-65, my racing buddy was on a V-MAX, and my other friend (never raced motocross) was on a VFR 1000. We were all lined up at a stop light. I had my own lane and they were side by side in the other lane. There was a van behind them and a car behind me. The light turned green, the van was looking at and anticipatong the light and not the bikes and rear ended them. My buddy on the V-MAX (who rides just like I do) was catapulted out into the intersection and kept control of his bike. My other friend wasn't so lucky and did a back flip off the back of his bike, while his bike shot across the intersection. He got ran over by the front tire over one of his legs, luckily the van was able to stop in time before running him over with the back wheels. The driver realized he's just hit a couple of bikes and ran a guy over and was apologizing profusely for what he had done. The ambulance came and took my friend to the hospital. He had a broken tail bone, bruised leg and a couple of scratches.
I asked him if he had his clutch pulled in with just two fingers or his whole hand. He stated to me that he had it pulled in with his whole hand. He also had his front brake covered by his whole hand.
I asked my other buddy on the V-MAX if he had his whole hand engaging the clutch or was we two fingering. He told me if it wasn't for the fact that he had his clutch pulled in with two fingers and the rest of his hand grabbing the grip, he would have probably endoed also.
I believe the MSF and it's teachings regarding using the whole hand to pull in the clutch or the front brake are very outdated. I'm sure it was okay in the 50's and 60's when you had to have a "popeye arm" just to pull a clutch in, or brake hard (drum brakes) but since the advent of hydraulic clutches and disc brakes, it is no longer an issue.
I have to ask you guys that have ridden for many years... have you ever (personally, not heard any stories) seen a motorcyclist that has lost his fingers due to the clutch or front brake lever severing them off? I didn't think so...
Like I said... I used to race for many years and have yet to see a 2 fingered racer. Now steer roping is a different story! I have a few friends that are missing a finger or two because they got caught in their dally and whacked them off.
There's one thing I do take exception to and like to argue my point on almost every time I take the course, and thats my two fingering the clutch and front brake. I used to race professional motocross and either one or two fingered my clutch and front brake while racing. The rest of my hand was wrapped around the handlebar grips holding on for dear life over the whoops and the jumps.
The ERC instructors (both Drill Team and MSF) contention is that if I ever have a bad accident and crash, I will lose my fingers (the ones wrapped around the grip) because they are all not covering the brake or clutch and the levers will sever them off.
This is about the biggest crock of sh!t I have ever heard!
Now here's a real life scenario that happened to me and a couple of my friends. We were all riding our bikes, I was on a V-65, my racing buddy was on a V-MAX, and my other friend (never raced motocross) was on a VFR 1000. We were all lined up at a stop light. I had my own lane and they were side by side in the other lane. There was a van behind them and a car behind me. The light turned green, the van was looking at and anticipatong the light and not the bikes and rear ended them. My buddy on the V-MAX (who rides just like I do) was catapulted out into the intersection and kept control of his bike. My other friend wasn't so lucky and did a back flip off the back of his bike, while his bike shot across the intersection. He got ran over by the front tire over one of his legs, luckily the van was able to stop in time before running him over with the back wheels. The driver realized he's just hit a couple of bikes and ran a guy over and was apologizing profusely for what he had done. The ambulance came and took my friend to the hospital. He had a broken tail bone, bruised leg and a couple of scratches.
I asked him if he had his clutch pulled in with just two fingers or his whole hand. He stated to me that he had it pulled in with his whole hand. He also had his front brake covered by his whole hand.
I asked my other buddy on the V-MAX if he had his whole hand engaging the clutch or was we two fingering. He told me if it wasn't for the fact that he had his clutch pulled in with two fingers and the rest of his hand grabbing the grip, he would have probably endoed also.
I believe the MSF and it's teachings regarding using the whole hand to pull in the clutch or the front brake are very outdated. I'm sure it was okay in the 50's and 60's when you had to have a "popeye arm" just to pull a clutch in, or brake hard (drum brakes) but since the advent of hydraulic clutches and disc brakes, it is no longer an issue.
I have to ask you guys that have ridden for many years... have you ever (personally, not heard any stories) seen a motorcyclist that has lost his fingers due to the clutch or front brake lever severing them off? I didn't think so...
Like I said... I used to race for many years and have yet to see a 2 fingered racer. Now steer roping is a different story! I have a few friends that are missing a finger or two because they got caught in their dally and whacked them off.
They have told me not to use two fingers, but never said anything like that, sorry...I've been using two fingers long enough that it's ingrained in my brain, if I need more pressure I bring the rest of my fingers up to the lever, you are supposed to apply the front brake progressively anyway, and the way I do it does exactly that.
fingers
Hey Rodehard, I agree with you 100% evry ERC i take they get on my a$$ about the fingers and I for one am not changing a thing. Never had any problems when i HAD TO BRAKE HARD WITH 2 FINGERS EITHER. All of my 2,000,000 miles are street and hyway miles.
Hey Rodehard, I agree with you 100% evry ERC i take they get on my a$$ about the fingers and I for one am not changing a thing. Never had any problems when i HAD TO BRAKE HARD WITH 2 FINGERS EITHER. All of my 2,000,000 miles are street and hyway miles.
I took a beginners coarse around 1980, took the ERC this spring after I started riding a GW. It was fun to practice slow speed stuff. Thats what I needed more practice with. Slow speeds with these GW's are what give me most of my problems. I would recommend taking the coarse, and will take it again -2 up next time. RodeHard was right, they want you grabbing the brake and clutch with 4 fingers, I still only use 1 or 2. Have fun and ride safe. ps-Jerry Palladino has a great dvd out "Ride like a Pro" @ http://www.ridelikeapro.com/
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