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:oops: As Luther (bulldog) was so gracious to point out (below), I forgot about being associated with HDL when I posted this comment regarding Lennie in Michigan and the tunnel filler templates. I don't want anyone to think that my position is in anyway to be misconstrued as the official position of HDL or it's owners. Therefore, I've decided to remove the post.
 

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Ya know Chef, when I first read Lennie's thread I thought I should have said something but I did'nt.Your absoulutly right.
**** :yw1:
 

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Chef,

Some of us did complain that this was wrong, a couple were rather vehoment in their disgust.

Bulldog jumped to Lennie's defense, although I'm not sure I followed his logic as to why.

You know what they say about opinions...
 

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Products and Copies

V & P is good company, I have purchased many items from them. You also have to look at both sides of the coin, he sells products that copy Tulsa & Bakers ideas, Kuryakyn parts and more and no one has complained about that. Just food for thought.
 

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I must have missed something...

...I thought that Lennie had measured out a piece of foam to fit that area and was just offtering the template up to all of us. Sure seemed like a nice jesture. When I got the template, however, I decided that I would probably not use it (was not sure if it should be printed at 100% or exactly how). On something as simple as this, however, I'm not sure that I would be knocking Lennie quite so hard. Lots of people come up with simple ideas to help the other members -- if it is that easy to do this, then should be a big deal. Hope Val does well on the other items that may e a little more unique and that people would not be trying to do themselves. Shoot, Honda must have listened to RIVCO and decided to put the illuminated controls on the 04s. Am sure RIVCO is taking a bigger hit as there truly was development and productions costs there.
 

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I think it all boils down to where your personal "morality line" is, and what it takes for you to cross it.

I agree that if Jim made his own and is offering up the idea for others' benefit: more power to him. I did that myself when I posted the instructions, wiring schematics and material sources for both the "Display Timer Adapter" and "Garage Door Opener High Beam Interlock". My intent was to take an idea I had and make it available for everyone who felt so inclined to tackle the project.

I used to copy software, until I started writing it myself and realizing what it takes to make something of my own. I've downloaded music in the past, until my kids asked if it was OK to do that (how could I tell them they couldn't do it, but it was OK for me?) Everyone has to make their own decisions and decide where they stand on these kind of issues.

In the case of the lighted controls, Honda had them on the 1500 and Rivco (and E/C) saw a niche market when the 1800 didn't have them and made a business decision. This happens all the time, and they still have a market for the '01-03 bikes.

How many of us have partially used a vendors products and later manipulate it to our own needs, as a GPS mount for instance.
I think it's very obvious that once you purchase a product, you can rightfully modify it for your use as you see fit. To buy a product, copy it and then offer to sell or publish the information with the intent to bypass the original vendor is not right, in my opinion.

I'm done with this one too - I didn't post my position to make people think I'm some kind of saint, Bulldog (I'm not) - just to point out that it might be wrong to copy another person's product and distribute the design (especially on a public forum like this)

Happy Holidays (EVERYONE)
 

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I got a copy of the template, but will not use it. Val has the proper tools for cutting the foam. I don't. Have you ever tried cutting 3" foam with sissors or a razor knife? It's not a pretty site. So just from the point of being practical it makes sense to buy the V&P product. And I also decided that the moral stand that many of you took is the proper one. It's always nice to have more than one reason to do the right thing.
 

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actually I think Lennie may have helped V&P sell more tunnel fillers! Do you guys think V&P should have exclusive rights to selling foam tunnel fillers I don't.
 

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Hey Guys,

I am Loving it, Thank you for coming clean Jon, on your criminal past....LOL ( we could have been cell mates together...LOL)

Now to talk about ethics. Where is the ethics of a person purchasing an item from a vendor, stripping it of all original identity, and then pasting his own info on the product for resale? Crap like this happens everyday, I know, but is it ethical? And what does this say about the integrity of that person whom speaks from both sides of the mouth?

Somehow a small thing got turned around into a big thing. I am very unhappy about Lennie being singled out, in public, especially from an affiliate staff member of "Honda Direct Line". There are better ways to communicate to an individual on matters such as this. It seems to me that an employee of the HONDA DIRECT LINE family would and should be held to a higher standard than than the average Bubba. Any messages from the HDL family, can set the tone as an official edit of the parent company. Public flogging is no longer in vogue.

I think that it would do us all better to get on with the spirit of Christmas, rejoice in our freedoms and occupy our lives with the more important missions in life.

Lennie, you are OK in my book, no harm, no foul (even if you did not send me a copy..LOl).

May the Spirit of Christmas and the words of Our Lord, Calm us, one and All!


Bulldog
 

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Closetchef said:
Ok, here's my reasoning:
Don't know if Lennie is giving the pattern for the V&P tunnel fillers or something he came up with by himself.
Look at the topic "rain coming thru handlebar opening". Check on the posts below and decide for yourself.

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:18 am
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 10:01 pm
 

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template

All you guys that have ever put together a hot rod send MR FORD his dues, ever built a bike? Send Harley Davidson a check, ever upholstered a seat on your bike, send the seat maker a check, ever constructed a computer, send IBM a check, sound's a little silly to me. Anything that comes out has a cheaper version the next day. Jus my 2cts worth :wink:
 

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Glenn,
You about took the words right out of my mouth.
The first production two-wheeler, was the Hildebrand & Wolfmueller, patented in Munich in 1894, then of course we have Henry Ford. I suppose with what I have read of late, there are several mfg's that owe a substantial amount of revenue to these folks.
I suppose that is going to an extreme some what, but I can't help but think of more current examples where as Honda provided a considerable list of accessories for the GL1800. In no time, all the aftermarket gurus hit the stores with their copy of Honda's chrome lower cowl, passenger floor board covers, saddlebag scuff covers, lower exhaust covers, and the list goes on. Show Chrome, Big Bike, Add-On acc's, VP, Kury, and a host of others have all not only reduced the price, but have made exact copies in most cases.
I find it rather disconcerting that there are those that find it neccessary to take one of our own to task over a issue that is not unlike all the cloned items that we can find on most GL's.
I may be wrong in my analysis, but be that as it may I truly believe there was absolutely no need for a public flogging.
People skills can go a long way to make this board better than the rest.
I have to commend Lennie for his restraint, and not trying to defend his efforts to share information.
 
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