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Discussion Starter #1
Normally I do all of my own service except those jobs I deem too time consuming or difficult. I don't get enough time off as it is so I don't like working when I want to rest. So any how I have been taking my 04 to the dealer for nearly all of its' maintenace intervals. The shop has one guy who is absolutely phenomenal on Goldwings of all years and styles. Everytime I go in he is the one working on wings. So anyhow he wasn't there for my 28000 service and one of the other guys did the job.

Well after I got home and the bike sat a little it left a mark on the floor usually associated with another make of motorcycle. Upon inspection I discovered that the drain plug was loose. So I torqued it down and checked my oil level. It is overfull.

So now to the question, I suddenly developed a hard shift problem and lots of false neutrals with gear teeth grinding right after this service and was wondering if the overfill condidtion could cause it? Or have I screwed the pooch and need a teardown inspection?
 

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Doubt it but how much is overfilled? The dip stick is notoriously inaccurate but usually in the other direction. I use the motto...4 quarts and forget it.
 

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scarredpelt said:
So now to the question, I suddenly developed a hard shift problem and lots of false neutrals with gear teeth grinding right after this service and was wondering if the overfill condidtion could cause it?
I doubt if the overfill would cause the problems but it would be nice if you could explained them in more detail.

Hard shift problem: when? - downshifting, upshifting, any particular gear? Does it take more pressure to move the shift lever?

False neutrals: in between gears other than first and second? Does the neutral light light up when this occurs?

Gear teeth grinding: when? - downshifting, upshifting, any particular gear?
 

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This is a good'n for Stu Oltman. I sure as thunder ain't Stu, but I doubt that over filling the oil would adversely effect the tranny; the engine, yes, and the seals if really flooded. But, are you certain its over full?

With bike at operating temp and motor running; place bike on centerstand and then turn off motor. Allow to rest 15 minutes. Remove the dip stick and wipe it clean; re-insert using the guide notch and just let the bottom threads rest squarely upon the opening. Remove and read.

A good number of folks here have commented that their center stand allows their bike to list noticably and if it lists to the right, the reading may indicate too full, even if correct - but I would hope it does not list enough to make any real difference. If yours is still too full checking this way, then loosen that drain bung and remove enough oil to get the level at the upper mark. If it really is too full, then I would suspect it to be a whole quart too full -- poor devil couldn't count.

The tranny noises could be bad news. Wing World's Work Bench, by Mr. Oltman mentions a somewhat similar odd ball case reported by a reader. Are you sure you are making good clean and crisp shifts and not half shifting? False neutrals and incomplete shifts that fall back out of gear are not all that rare. I have a particular pair of boots with tall square toes that are my Huckelberry. If you are confidnet that your shifting is not to blame; then drain that oil and closely inspect it for metal grindings and/or have it evaluated for trace metals that indicate abnormal wear. Also check you clutch to be sure its de-clutching properly. One other thing I have seen refcently on this board in regard to tracing down poor shifts; take a close look at the external shift linclage and make certain it is not tangled in something or that a stick is not wedged into it. Good luck to ya!

prs
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Primarily I run into false neutrals between 1-2-3 while upshifting. None while down.

By hard shift I mean that it takes an inordinate amount of force to shift up or down, and when it gets to the gear it 'thunks'. I know that the tranny is notorious for this noise and I have always experienced that, but this is a much more intense noise and feel.

I haven't had time yet to drain the oil but will go ahead and do that today and let you know the result.
 

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Pigeon Roost said:
A good number of folks here have commented that their center stand allows their bike to list noticably and if it lists to the right, the reading may indicate too full, even if correct - but I would hope it does not list enough to make any real difference.
Good to know. Mine lists to the right. I thought I was the only one.
 

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I always put 4 qts. in mine, this will fill it a little over full but has never hurt anything. Surely the wrench didn't open the 5 qt. and add more.
 

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Could he have put the wrong oil into the bike?

Olive Oil can do this to a transmission ya know ...
 

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scarredpelt said:
Primarily I run into false neutrals between 1-2-3 while upshifting. None while down.

By hard shift I mean that it takes an inordinate amount of force to shift up or down, and when it gets to the gear it 'thunks'. I know that the tranny is notorious for this noise and I have always experienced that, but this is a much more intense noise and feel.

I haven't had time yet to drain the oil but will go ahead and do that today and let you know the result.
Does the neutral light light with these false neutrals? What is it doing when this happens that you think you've hit neutral?

Concerning your hard shifting, try this technique, both for upshifting and downshifting. When shifting, don't roll the throttle all the way off. In fact, just roll it off enough that the engine doesn't rev up when you pull in the clutch lever... a little rev up is OK. It takes a while to get the hang of it. If you remember back when tranny's didn't have sychronizers, "double clutching" helped shifting. The above technique is a modification of this. Motorcycle transmissions need the input and output gear's speeds to be close for a smooth shift.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Wanderer said:
Does the neutral light light with these false neutrals? What is it doing when this happens that you think you've hit neutral?

Concerning your hard shifting, try this technique, both for upshifting and downshifting. When shifting, don't roll the throttle all the way off. In fact, just roll it off enough that the engine doesn't rev up when you pull in the clutch lever... a little rev up is OK. It takes a while to get the hang of it. If you remember back when tranny's didn't have sychronizers, "double clutching" helped shifting. The above technique is a modification of this. Motorcycle transmissions need the input and output gear's speeds to be close for a smooth shift.
In answer to the first part - No.

For the second, this is the technique that I use. In fact, I only used the clutch on my Nitehawk to stop and start, syncroing the gear shifts by feel. I have only done this on the wing once or twice and that was early in the miles.

For those of you who don't know, this bike is my daily driver. I don't get to take long relaxing tours, I don't have the time or the funds. My short commute is 4 miles a day. (that is when I work at the store down the road.) My long commute was 700 miles. My current commute is 113 total trip. Believe me when I say that this development has been recent and glaringly obvious.

Perhaps a little background on the timeline of when the shifting problem occured. I dropped the bike off on a Friday afternoon and waited while the service was performed. The service ticket reads that the oil came from a 55 Gallon Drum of 10W40. I don't know if they manually pump from the drum to a container that is then transferred to the bike or if they use a metering handle and pump directly to the case. In any event I left the dealership around 430PM and proceeded home.

I didn't really notice anything as I was leaving. Traffic was just beginning its rush hour behavior and I was just cruising. When I got to an intersection where I was first in line at the red light with a 55MPH I opened up the can of Whoop##s and boogied. My shift from 1 to 2 was a total miss, with what sounded like gears clattering, I had to force it into 2nd and then again into 3rd. Ever since then Shifting has been a pain to perform requiring a deliberate pull of the clutch lever to a slow and deliberate movement of the toeshifter. It has become so bad that little ole ladies are giving me the finger for slowing them down to their bingo game. :)

I drained nearly a qt out to get a reading on the dipstick that appears withing nominal range. I also checked the oil visually not seeing anything out of the ordinary. No shavings apparent and the oil is still 'new' looking if not as clear as new. The oil smells fresh but feels thin almost what my 5W30 Maxlife I have in the trucks feels like. Seems the 10W30 felt like it had more substance when I worked that industry but WTH I could be wrong. Shifting is somewhat better but still feels out of whack.
 

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Oil

I would drain the oil and refill just for my peace of mind.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
salyzyn said:
Could he have put the wrong oil into the bike?

Olive Oil can do this to a transmission ya know ...
Olive Oyl? I didn't see her but I did see Jan K's beautiful bike sitting in front of the shop. Looked so forlorn and lonely I nearly borrowed the keys. :p
 

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Does the oil filter look new on the outside or is it dirty? With drain plug loose it sounds like he got distracted during the job. Maybe he did not change the filter either and put 4 quarts back in which would result in an over full condition. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Okay time for an update. Went to work this morning and made an effort to keep track of my shifting. As the day wore on I noticed that my shifts from 1-2 and 3-4 and 4-5 got smoother. 2-3 feels weird and still requires what I feel is an inordinate amount of force to get it to change gears.

By weird, here is what I mean. When you are toeing the shift, there is resistance against the shift. In a normal shift you feel the clunk and move along your way, in my 2-3 shift I get a 'push back' feeling, like a rebound that I feel against my toe. There is also the sound of a gear clatter.

Incidently, many times that I don't need to use 3 or 4 and go straight to 5 I run into resistance on 3 and also on 4 with the same gear clatter on 3-4 that I normally get on 2-3. I am starting to become used to it. In fact I had a few normal feeling gear changes and started to diagnose why I was getting normal gear changes. The only thing I can figure is that I need to have everything synced exactly.
 
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