[coy55boy]

I just learned that (at least in my county) smog controls are no longer required for motorcycles. I was speaking with a riding buddy about this the other day and he told me he had already removed the catalytic converter on his trike (custom job with a Buick super charged V6) and had instantly improved fuel economy by 50% from 18 to 27mpg!

My question is: has anyone ever done this on a Wing? What steps would need to be taken? Besides the converter, are there other components like the O2 sensor that should be removed? Will this require remapping the ECU?

I know, lots of questions. But, this would be a pretty big mod and I want to be well informed before making any decisions.

 

[pidjones]

I throw down the flag.

 

[Fred H.]

Its been awhile since I looked but I believe the CATs are aft of the 02 sensors. And you would have to leave the O2 sensors on the bike, since the ECU needs their input to function. Without them you will get an FI error.

CATs are generally pretty free flowing and don't provide a lot of restriction, but it's possible to gain a little HP and possibly mileage by removing them, (but I'd be surprised if it was much more than one or two mpg). Though in most places its illegal to do so, and you may have a hard time finding a shop willing to cut them out. It's also not a good idea to try to gut them yourself, as the dust from them contains heavy metals that are considered hazardous. Removing them is also probably going to be a one way trip, and it could make reselling the bike difficult and/or complicated.

In general, I think you would be ill advised to mess with them.

 

[Fred H.]

By the way, your buddy who claims to have gotten such good gas mileage gains by removing the CATs may have had CATs that were partially clogged, so removing them provided an instant increase in power and mileage. If it was an older engine with a lot of miles on it, it's very possible they were plugged up. I don't think you would see anywhere near this kind of gas mileage gain on a Wing unless the CATs were clogged up to begin with.

 

[Auswing]

Just buy a set of Torq Loopz and fit them. No Cats and the O2 sensors remain fitted. They also state a power increase is achieved. Less weight etc.

http://www.directlineparts.com/product.asp?pid=6311&str=4

Just a thought.

Trev.

 

[rnmedic1839]

Cat removal

Not a smart Idea on the Fuel injected engines unless you plan to read just everything Airmass meter etc etc Could cause more problems than its worth, Then again the savings you might get might be worth the retuning

 

[LarryM]

Ditto to what Fred said. I think you are going to be a bit disappointed after spending all that time and money.

But I would like to know where you heard that your county no longer requires cat converters. The statement doesn't make any sense, for one very important reason.

Unlike cars, catalytic converters have never been required for motorcycles in the US, even in CA. It's kind of hard for an AZ county to no longer require something that was never required in the first place.

Because of the differences in design and styling of bikes, the EPA made a final ruling back in 2003 that instead of requiring that specific emissions components be used, they would leave it up to each manufacturer to develop their own strategy for meeting federal emissions requirements. In many cases, mfrs have used convertors. But it was up to them. It isn't required if they can serve the same purpose with other types of controls.

What that means is that, if you can remove your cats and still meet emissions regs, your bike is legal. If it can't, then you are riding an illegal bike. No local jurisdiction can overturn federal law.

That being said, in most states, emission inspections are not required. so it is unlikely you would ever be busted. But keep in mind that your bike already spews out 10 times the hydrocarbons than any passenger vehicle made today. Imagine how much worse it would be if you remove the cats.

I'm not a big environmentalist. But at the same time, I'm not going to undo what is on my bike just to satisfy some sort of desire to be rebellious .

 

[Waldo]

:agree:

 

[Auswing]

I fitted Torq loops to my 06 and suffered no ill effects etc. I have since removed them as I did not like the "Ferrari" sound. (It soon wore off as I really like to cruise in silence).

The answer to the original question is: yes you can do it and it is relatively cheap.

Morally and ethically should you do it? The answers will be as diverse as the numbers of members on this board.

Trev.

 

[coy55boy]

Thanks all for your replies. Just a couple of points I want to clear up.

By the way, your buddy who claims to have gotten such good gas mileage gains by removing the CATs may have had CATs that were partially clogged, so removing them provided an instant increase in power and mileage. If it was an older engine with a lot of miles on it, it's very possible they were plugged up. I don't think you would see anywhere near this kind of gas mileage gain on a Wing unless the CATs were clogged up to begin with.

Fred,
His trike was a new build first registered in June of this year. The engine he used was from an '06 Buick model, but it was a new engine. I don't think the 'cats' could have become saturated so quickly unless something was/is seriously wrong. On the other hand, I didn't see any empirical evidence proving his mpg claims either. He might have just been blowing smoke, or there may have been some other reason for the change in fuel economy.

Here's a pic of his ride. It's really something to see.

Ditto to what Fred said. I think you are going to be a bit disappointed after spending all that time and money.

But I would like to know where you heard that your county no longer requires cat converters.

Larry,
You have a valid point and after rereading my post, I realize that I should have said 'emissions tests are no longer required' which is not the same as catalytic converters are no longer required. If there is no test or inspection, no one would know. However, Fred said something that made sense to me. "Removing them is also probably going to be a one way trip, and it could make reselling the bike difficult and/or complicated." I don't plan on selling this bike anytime soon, but who knows what might happen? No sense asking for problems. It was a just an idea and I'm glad you guys were able to talk me down.

 

[Rocky]

Larry,
You have a valid point and after rereading my post, I realize that I should have said 'emissions tests are no longer required' which is not the same as catalytic converters are no longer required. If there is no test or inspection, no one would know. However, Fred said something that made sense to me. "Removing them is also probably going to be a one way trip, and it could make reselling the bike difficult and/or complicated." I don't plan on selling this bike anytime soon, but who knows what might happen? No sense asking for problems. It was a just an idea and I'm glad you guys were able to talk me down.

That's not entirely true.Torquemaster sells adapters in case you want to put the cats back on if you sell the bike.
Go to their site and read the Dyno sheet from there tests instead of reading hear say from guys who have never had a set on there bike.

 

[LarryM]

Larry,
You have a valid point and after rereading my post, I realize that I should have said 'emissions tests are no longer required' which is not the same as catalytic converters are no longer required. If there is no test or inspection, no one would know.

Thanks for clarifying. It makes much more sense that way.

 

[jjolly]

What gain?

Ditto to what Fred said. I think you are going to be a bit disappointed after spending all that time and money.

But I would like to know where you heard that your county no longer requires cat converters. The statement doesn't make any sense, for one very important reason.

Unlike cars, catalytic converters have never been required for motorcycles in the US, even in CA. It's kind of hard for an AZ county to no longer require something that was never required in the first place.

Because of the differences in design and styling of bikes, the EPA made a final ruling back in 2003 that instead of requiring that specific emissions components be used, they would leave it up to each manufacturer to develop their own strategy for meeting federal emissions requirements. In many cases, mfrs have used convertors. But it was up to them. It isn't required if they can serve the same purpose with other types of controls.

What that means is that, if you can remove your cats and still meet emissions regs, your bike is legal. If it can't, then you are riding an illegal bike. No local jurisdiction can overturn federal law.

That being said, in most states, emission inspections are not required. so it is unlikely you would ever be busted. But keep in mind that your bike already spews out 10 times the hydrocarbons than any passenger vehicle made today. Imagine how much worse it would be if you remove the cats.

I'm not a big environmentalist. But at the same time, I'm not going to undo what is on my bike just to satisfy some sort of desire to be rebellious .

:thumbup::agree::thumbup:
Spot on!

 

[Tawni]

I agree with others

Cats may have been plugged

and Doubt you will see much increase

And Torque loops is best alternative if you did remove the cats why ? because they Fit , unless you are superb at creating your own pipes
but hard to beat the torque loops concept

You wont lose back pressure with torque loops , if you were planning straight pipes I would not recommend that at all.

Torque loops are expensive though.

 

[LarryM]

You wont lose back pressure with torque loops , if you were planning straight pipes I would not recommend that at all.

The whole theory behind removing the cats is that you will reduce back pressure. If torque loops won't do that, why would remove the cats and install them?

 

[Stove Pipe]

Simple Question: If it ain't broke why try to fix it?

 

[Auswing]

Simple Question: If it ain't broke why try to fix it?

:roll: People are like that. They like to be different.

Why hang chrome and air wings etc off your perfectly designed Goldwing? Isn't the USA the Hot Rod Kingdom of the world? Home of the worlds fastest drag cars?
Torq Loopz will not destroy his bike. They will remove some weight and change the sound of his bike and perhaps improve the torque.
I did it to mine but changed it back then just modified my mufflers slightly to give the Wing a voice. Why? Because I could.

Do whatever you want to your bike as long as you are happy. Its your ride!

Trev.

 

[imrubicon]

Why the somg doe something and to remove it is going against the designers ?
and for little to no gain LOL
a 50% upgrade in MPG is a little like bull**** in a big way.
Not worth the effort unless you want different pipse or loud pipes .

 

[LD_RIDER]

I was speaking with a riding buddy about this the other day and he told me he had already removed the catalytic converter on his trike (custom job with a Buick super charged V6) and had instantly improved fuel economy by 50% from 18 to 27mpg!

My guess is your buddy figured the mileage with the engine <still> in the Buick, and then figured the mileage with it <out> of the Buick and in the trike. :joke:

 

[cycledude]

wow that picture is interesting ! i wonder what its like to drive that thing ? :thumbup: