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Hello, all:

I am an attorney, and I subscribe to an online referral service. Some good referral come through, and some are dogs. Often, people will have inquiries that are totally unrelated to our practice, such as the one below. A gentleman contacted us about pursuing a Lemon Law claim on a 2020 Goldwing. I don't do Lemon Law cases, but I thought the experienced members here might have some armchair advice for this fellow. Any advice or thoughts you have will be passed on to the gentleman. Please excuse his grammatical deficiencies; I have not edited his inquiry.

Thank you.



Numerous attempts were made to my bike and the dealership has tried many time fixing it. Honda on the other hand doesn't want to comply with getting me another bike. Yes it's a new bike and yes I am still under warranty.i am retired my wife works Monday thru Friday .this has been very disappointing. There is nothing else that they could keep replacing on the bike.

So long story short one day my wife and I were driving in a gas station bike wouldn't start turned it off then it started we arrive in our driveway and All light blacked out. Dealership replaced a few things here comes the following week come pick it up. Bearly got out the driveway and it did it again. Then waiting for part. They tried again all lights go out again. Then they ordered a main harness waited 4weeks for them to do the job they call it's ready. Again all lights gone turn bike off try turning it on nothing happened.

Yesterday we pick up the bike today we hardly put 80miles on it we left the restaurant as we are leaving it happens again all lights off again it's running ((But)) as soon as it turns off that's it it never turns back on. So the bike so far is here in our home we have paperwork of all orders that were performed to the unit. Hope to here something from you guys I just wouldn't want to wait around again more and more waiting for a new bike again.
Although I don't work at a Honda dealer, I do own a GW repair shop that specializes only on GL1800s. I've also worked at car dealers, and am very familiar with challenges of diagnosis and doing repairs.

As for a Lemon Law, here is what I know. From state to state they are not the same, and for all I know, some states may not even have one ... or possibly not for m/c. In the states I've lived in (WA, AZ, and FL), usually the law only applies once certain conditions are met. Since law is your field of expertise, you're far better are studying those than me. However, here are a couple of examples. I believe in the state of CA, the dealer gets 3 chances at the repair. In all cases, I'm sure the complaint must be verified each time. Also, since it's no longer a new bike, but a "used one," certainly the owner should pay for using it. In some cases mileage is used as a guide to use, and sometimes the mileage can be so high that it's not to an owners advantage to even think about it.

Here's some important things that need to be considered. Nobody, including the person who owns the bike, wants to pay for a repair, if it ends up deemed "not their fault," ... Honda included. Certainly the other thing that must occur is that the complaint must be duplicated. Unfortunately, when it comes to diagnosing electrical issues, a symptom existing all the way to complete diagnoses is often not the case. An example is probably the replacement of the harness. My bet says it was replaced not because it was found bad, but as a likely possibility. In other words, if there is no indication that the bike has been dropped, abused, or been in a wreck, Honda did their best guess to resolve his/her issue, at a huge cost to them, and accepted the responsibility, and replaced a likely part, in hopes of resolving his/her issue.

One thing that you can count on is this. Over the years, Honda has been sued every way possible, and they very well know what their responsibilities are. My bet says they are trying to resolve the issue as quickly as they can. Their resources, and expertise on fixing their product is vast, and the last thing they want is to deal with a Lemon Law, or to be sued. What they really want is to find out what is causing the issue, so that they can learn from it too, and stop possibly the same issue that might cause another Wing to have the same problem too, and send their customer(s) on their way.

I do understand the frustration, but in some cases, it's best to allow Honda to continue throwing money at it.

If this is a trike, Honda has already gone above and beyond, and everything done this far could be called Honda goodwill, and not Honda warranty. It also means that the issue may not be a Honda problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Bob, the bike in in Pennsylvania. Greg, the bike was purchased new and is under warranty. I am well-versed in PA Lemon Law. My purpose for creating this post was just on the off chance that someone might recognize the problem and might be able to offer some solutions.

I know that I provided very scant info from which to diagnose the problem, but I am thinking along the same lines as Greg: let Honda continue to deal with it. It's on their dime.
 

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In deference to the OP, not everything warrants a J.D.

As noted , every state "lemon law" is different. Most states have a branch or at least a specific attorney assigned to this particular type issue. My first call would be to the state's Attorney General or Office of Consumer Protection and ask them what the criteria is for a lemon law action and whether those have been met in this case. Any individual can make this call, does not need to be a member of the bar.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Andy,

Respectfully, your suggestions are nice but quaint: this is not an issue that would be resolved by lodging a complaint with a government or government agency. All lemon law attorneys worth their salt provide free consultations to see if a claim exists and if it make sense to pursue it. Lemon Law claims are civil claims.
 

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Thy have replaced the ECU four times.
Has he tried reaching out to Maw Honda in California with said issues?:unsure: I got Maw Honda involved with my 2018 and I did have to exercise patience, but I could see why the gentleman and his wife are wearing thin on the issue(s) as described.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Kenichi,

If by "Maw Honda" you are referring the corporate, yes, they have been dealing with the headquarters on a continual basis. It's the mothership's technicians who have been guiding the dealer's tech through the diagnostics and repairs.
 

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I know who this is and he has been through the ringer with this problem, I don't think Pa. has a Lemon law for motorcycles. He is on two wheels, his wife has her own trike.
 
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Although I don't work at a Honda dealer, I do own a GW repair shop that specializes only on GL1800s. I've also worked at car dealers, and am very familiar with challenges of diagnosis and doing repairs.

As for a Lemon Law, here is what I know. From state to state they are not the same, and for all I know, some states may not even have one ... or possibly not for m/c. In the states I've lived in (WA, AZ, and FL), usually the law only applies once certain conditions are met. Since law is your field of expertise, you're far better are studying those than me. However, here are a couple of examples. I believe in the state of CA, the dealer gets 3 chances at the repair. In all cases, I'm sure the complaint must be verified each time. Also, since it's no longer a new bike, but a "used one," certainly the owner should pay for using it. In some cases mileage is used, and sometimes the mileage can be so high that it not to an owners advantage to even think about it.

Here's some important things that need to be considered. Nobody, including the person who owns the bike, wants to pay for a repair if it ends up deemed "not their fault" ... Honda included. Certainly the other thing that must occur is that the complaint must be duplicated. Unfortunately, when it comes to diagnosing electrical issues, a symptom existing all the way to complete diagnoses is often not the case. An example is probably the replacement of the harness. My bet says it was replaced not because it was found bad, but as a likely possibility. In other words, if there is no indication that the bike has been dropped, abused, or been in a wreck, Honda did their best guess to resolve his issue, at a huge cost to them, and accepted the responsibility and replaced a likely part, in hopes of resolving his issue.

One thing that you can count on is this. Over the years, Honda has been sued every way possible, and they very well know what their responsibilities. My bet says they are trying to resolve the guys issue as quickly as they can. Their resources, and expertise on fixing their product is vast, and the last thing they want is to deal with a Lemon Law. What they really want is to find out what is causing the guys issue, so that they can learn from it to, and stop possibly the same issue that might cause another Wing that might have the same problem too, and send their customer on his way.

I do understand the guys frustration, but in some cases, it's best to allow Honda to continue throwing money at it.

If this is a trike, Honda has already gone above and beyond, and everything done this far could be called Honda goodwill. It also means that it may easily not be a Honda problem.
At this point Honda is reaching the point of diminishing return and has a lot of money in it. It's in everyone's best interest to replace the bike and sell the lemon for salvage. I'm in Maryland and would gladly buy it for salvage at no more than $1,500.
 

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At this point Honda is reaching the point of diminishing return and has a lot of money in it. It's in everyone's best interest to replace the bike and sell the lemon for salvage. I'm in Maryland and would gladly buy it for salvage at no more than $1,500.
That is funny :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
As the OP, I did not intend to create a thread that dealt with Lemon Law (not applicable for this claim) or to trash Honda. I simply wanted to se if anyone had ideas as to helping this fellow with an accurate diagnosis for the mechanical issues. With the scant information that I had at hand, it was probably not a good idea to present the problem here.

As a couple of you have stated, especially, Greg, it's best to let Honda deal with the repairs until if and when the issue is resolved.

Thanks for your time.
 

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I know who this is and he has been through the ringer with this problem, I don't think Pa. has a Lemon law for motorcycles. He is on two wheels, his wife has her own trike.
So the Wing at issue is 2 or 3-wheeled ???
 

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As the OP, I did not intend to create a thread that dealt with Lemon Law (not applicable for this claim) or to trash Honda. I simply wanted to se if anyone had ideas as to helping this fellow with an accurate diagnosis for the mechanical issues. With the scant information that I had at hand, it was probably not a good idea to present the problem here.

As a couple of you have stated, especially, Greg, it's best to let Honda deal with the repairs until if and when the issue is resolved.

Thanks for your time.

Sorry, but the original post started the question as a legal referral request to you, not a technical question looking for technical solutions. The bike’s owner clearly has reached out looking at that option. Several folks followed the path of legal not technical resolution.

Accordingly, this thread may well pop up on future searches for other members with questions regarding “lemon law.” While I am certain that you are intimately familiar with Pennsylvania warranty and lemon law(s), with all due respect, your statement does not apply in all states.

Maine law for example (with some exceptions) requires dealers and retail purchasers of new and used vehicles, including motorcycles, to agree to the states’ lemon law arbitration requirement at time of purchase. This includes a prepaid arbitration fee of one dollar at time or purchase. The Maine lemon law is designed to specifically avoid civil claims and actions. A simple form is filed with the Office of Consumer Protection and will receive an arbitration decision within 45 days. If the arbitrator determines the vehicle is a “lemon” the buyer will be provided a suitable replacement or a full refund.

Since many others noted about the variability of lemon laws from one jurisdiction to another, I was commenting that anyone involved in such a situation could check with a government agency who had no fiduciary interest in promoting a civil claim. This was in no way intended to discourage use of an attorney if one chooses to.

Absolutely agree that handling this at the lowest level, i.e., the Honda dealership, would be the best but I clearly understand the owner’s frustration. Even though Honda had paid the bill thus far, they are not feeling any negativity. If the owner has reached that point, it would be time to pay an attorney to formally contact the dealer and Honda.
 

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Two wheels
Thank you ... I was getting confused.

I know it's a big inconvenience, and huge hassle to its owner, but sometimes life isn't fair. If Honda is willing to throw more money at it, I'd let them. Other things to consider ... they can always sell it, and passing the problem on to someone else ... it's done in the 5th gen world with transmission issues all the time. If out touring, and if it acts up, they can have it towed to the local dealer, and double up on the wife's trike. Or he can find something else to ride while touring, until his is really, really fixed. After all, things could be worst. Another fellow member has a Yami, and I think his scoot's still waiting on a BO part since last fall.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Andy,

In Pennsylvania, where the bike was purchased and is registered, there is no upfront attorneys fee for the claimant. The fee is established by statute if the claimant is successful in winning the case.
 

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As the OP, I did not intend to create a thread that dealt with Lemon Law (not applicable for this claim) or to trash Honda. I simply wanted to se if anyone had ideas as to helping this fellow with an accurate diagnosis for the mechanical issues. With the scant information that I had at hand, it was probably not a good idea to present the problem here.

As a couple of you have stated, especially, Greg, it's best to let Honda deal with the repairs until if and when the issue is resolved.

Thanks for your time.
For my education, can you provide simple information about the Lemon Law there. Is there one ... how does it work ??? Do they use mileage to base the cost of usage ??? How many times does Honda get to try ???
 
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