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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently posted about my front brake pads wearing unevenly and that the upper right top pad was completely gone at 12,000mi. It was actually worn to the metal while the lower still had about 2mm left.

The upshot of it all was that the upper right puck was sticking. Everything was cleaned and seems not to be sticking with the new pads installed.

A lesson learned in reading the OM regarding wheel installation is that apparently, the Caliper mounting bolts need to be replaced every time you remove them.

Page 192 of the owners manual states in part "Use new mounting bolts when
installing the brake caliper".

I have never had a bike where that was the case. No one had them in stock and I had to order them. The three dealers I called had no idea they needed to be replaced each time you remove the wheel.

If you look at the bolts you can see they are hollow. Also never seen that before and perhaps that is why they are a one time use. Why would Honda to this ? To save weight?

Unless I am misreading or misunderstanding we will be paying about $25 for bolts at each front change. The bolts are #13 in the attached diagram.

If anyone has a contact at Honda it would be nice to know if we can replace those with solid bolts not needing to be replaced each change.
 

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Those “bolts” were designed to fit those calipers... they have a special thread lock on them. I would “imagine” when the engineers at Honda designed the new wing, that’s what they came up with, I’m guessing it was something like... “when the front brakes are serviced, the bolts need to be changed” .....

It’s as simple as that..

If you want your wing to “act” like it was designed, I would suggest following the advice of Honda not “Earl” down the road a bit...

Hope this helps...

Mattbcnv
 

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I'm betting that those bolts rarely get replaced as stipulated. I know mine never have been in all the years I've owned it.
 

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I'm with Greyhound! I've never change mine either! 2010

Ronnie
 

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I think the recommendation to change every time is due to the locking chemical on the bolt. I clean mine and re-use with Blue Loctite. So far so good.
 

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Another one for the list

Wow, we have yet another one for the list of "Best practices." Some folks think it is best to follow Honda's guidelines, others think it is best to do what makes sense. Me, I understand that Honda's recommendations are created by a committee and that process is rife with compromise. It may or may not be an optimal compromise for any particular owner's individual goals. I think if you properly torque your rotor bolts and put LocTite on them, there is no problem with not replacing them. I suspect my Goldwing with older rotor bolts stops identically to the one with bolts that are changed by Honda's recommendations.
 

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I believe it is a lawyer thing. The bolts have a vinyl aerobic type thread lock or anti-vibe material on several threads to prevent them from backing out due to vibration. Removing the bolts strips some of this away and replacement of same material may not be handy. However, I have had good results with Vibra-Tite aerobic type sealer and also with PTFE plumber's tape. My advice is to follow the book and don't do it my way. I will do it my way, but it is your brakes!


prs
 

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Honda sells bolts. Dealers usually do not put in new bolts when servicing calipers. They don't usually stock them either but sometimes charge you if they think they can get away with it.
There is a simple test I use to decide if the bolts are mechanically still good. I hold a used bolt with the threaded end along side and parallel to a new bolt so the tip of the used bolt is at the underside of the head of the new bolt. The length should match. If not the bolt has been way over torqued and is junk.
If that is the case there are bigger problems like damaged aluminum threads in the caliper mounting flange :22yikes: .
I reuse all the caliper bolts. I clean out the internal and external threads (I use a wire brush made to clean gun barrels) and use Loctite blue #243. It is made to work on any area where there may be traces of brake fluid, oil etc.
Like PRS wrote, that is just how I do it but it never hurts to follow Honda's recommendations.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Those “bolts” were designed to fit those calipers... they have a special thread lock on them. I would “imagine” when the engineers at Honda designed the new wing, that’s what they came up with, I’m guessing it was something like... “when the front brakes are serviced, the bolts need to be changed” .....

It’s as simple as that..

If you want your wing to “act” like it was designed, I would suggest following the advice of Honda not “Earl” down the road a bit...

Hope this helps...

Mattbcnv
My intent in posting this information was to advise everyone of the requirement to change the bolts and the unusual design of the bolt. I have never seen this on a bike I have owned. This could have safety implications and given the dealer service departments in my area were not yet aware of it I thought it good information to pass along. In no way was I suggesting not to follow Honda's guidelines nor to follow "Earl" or anybody's advice contrary to Honda's. My apologies if my wording suggested in any way one should not follow Honda's procedure.

It would be nice to know if the bolts are one time use because they are hollow and if a solid reusable bolt of the correct type would be an acceptable replacement.

I attached pictures of the replacement bolts in case anyone is interested.
 

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IronMan
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YOU WOULD THINK DEALERS WOULD STOCK THE BOLTS IF NEEDED EVERYTIME BRAKES WERE DONE !! BUT MAYBE THEY DONT KNOW YET !! :surprise:
 
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Heat Stress on those bolts

On the pre 2018 models the manual also says you should replace the caliper mounting bolts. These bolts see extreme heat cycles and the metal fatigues. I usually replace mine every other time, I take the calipers off.
 

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Isn’t possible the bolts are designed that way to disipate more heat?
 

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Honda sells bolts. Dealers usually do not put in new bolts when servicing calipers. They don't usually stock them either but sometimes charge you if they think they can get away with it.
There is a simple test I use to decide if the bolts are mechanically still good. I hold a used bolt with the threaded end along side and parallel to a new bolt so the tip of the used bolt is at the underside of the head of the new bolt. The length should match. If not the bolt has been way over torqued and is junk.
If that is the case there are bigger problems like damaged aluminum threads in the caliper mounting flange :22yikes: .
I reuse all the caliper bolts. I clean out the internal and external threads (I use a wire brush made to clean gun barrels) and use Loctite blue #243. It is made to work on any area where there may be traces of brake fluid, oil etc.
Like PRS wrote, that is just how I do it but it never hurts to follow Honda's recommendations.
I worked at a Honda dealership when I was a young man for a year or so and I know one thing. If you ever changed these bolts when someone brought a bike in for a tire change and you charged them for them they would blow a gasket when you presented them the bill.
 
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This is only a guess, nothing more than speculation!!

Honda may have found in life testing of the brakes that these bolts put extreme stress on the mating threads due to differential expansion between the aluminum caliper and the steel bolts. To mitigate this, the bolts were made hollow to reduce the stress on the threads and allow the bolts to stretch instead. This may result in stress in the bolts which is higher than allowable for infinite life over temperature cycling at least on paper. In real life however, it may be that few if any bolts are actually ever stressed to the breaking point, and it may be possible (as demonstrated by all the reused bolts out in the field!) to just reuse the bolts over and over.

Thus the ability to reuse the bolts may be due to conservative (safe) design, where the parts aren't being stressed as highly out in service as the engineers feared they might be.

End result, we can probably continue to reuse the bolts, but if they do end up loose or break, Honda will rightly say "we told you to replace them".


Comes down to the question: "how much margin did Honda leave?"
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
On the pre 2018 models the manual also says you should replace the caliper mounting bolts. These bolts see extreme heat cycles and the metal fatigues. I usually replace mine every other time, I take the calipers off.
Do you know if the bolts on the pre-2018 bikes are also hollow?
 

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It’s not unusual for a manufacturer to recommend replace the caliper bolts. I’m not a metalogist, so I can’t prove or disprove this, but I have read on other forums that metal fatigue is the primary reason. Other bolts, like for the heads, are different. I don’t change mine every time, but I have had one bolt that was stretched and would not tighten properly.
 
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I think pretty much all motorcycle manufacturers recommend replacing the bolts, doesn't matter if they are hollow or not in that regard. Just another safetycrat safeguard that is totally unnecessary. A bolt tightened to 14ft/lb, 18ft/lb or whatever these are will never come loose. If they break during installation, replace, but that isn't going to happen either.
May be the recommendation is geared towards Honda mechanics at dealers. Possibly if they forget to tighten the bolts, the new bolts with the thread locker will retain the bolt and it won't fall off.
 
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