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I think pretty much all motorcycle manufacturers recommend replacing the bolts, doesn't matter if they are hollow or not in that regard. Just another safetycrat safeguard that is totally unnecessary. A bolt tightened to 14ft/lb, 18ft/lb or whatever these are will never come loose. If they break during installation, replace, but that isn't going to happen either.
May be the recommendation is geared towards Honda mechanics at dealers. Possibly if they forget to tighten the bolts, the new bolts with the thread locker will retain the bolt and it won't fall off.
The thing is, I have a bunch of old shop manuals from previous bikes (Yamaha, BMW and Harley) and I also looked at online owners manuals re wheel removal and none I looked at recommend changing these bolts. Everyone says to change the rotor bolts and I get that. The Caliper bolts, I don't find that recommendation elsewhere.

Like so many things regarding this bike this is just another thing I would really like to know the why of. So..you Honda guys lurking on here fess up!:grin2:
 

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On the pre 2018 models the manual also says you should replace the caliper mounting bolts. These bolts see extreme heat cycles and the metal fatigues. I usually replace mine every other time, I take the calipers off.
Yes, the Honda's Service Manual does, as well as many car service manuals often say to always replace caliper mounting bolts once they are removed. However, in the repair industry they are rarely replaced. Here is an excellent example. Honda's SB-23 5th gen brake recall, their recall does not include replacing any caliper bolt. But the RF brake caliper must be removed to remove the front wheel.
 

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If you look at the bolts you can see they are hollow. Also never seen that before and perhaps that is why they are a one time use. Why would Honda to this ? To save weight?
First ... if your bolts are at fault for your pad wear, they'll be damaged, worn, or not straight. As for the bolts having a center hole. On the 5th gens, both front engine mount bolts are hollow too. Basically a 1/8" hole is cast down their center. I to have often wondered why. I've always wondered if it's a pilot hole in case one is ever needed to be dripped out. In both situations, front caliper bolts and front engine bolts are more exposed to more corrosion then others.
 

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YOU WOULD THINK DEALERS WOULD STOCK THE BOLTS IF NEEDED EVERYTIME BRAKES WERE DONE !! BUT MAYBE THEY DONT KNOW YET !! :surprise:

They typically have never stocked such "needs to be replaced" hardware. Rotor bolts are a prime example.

On the pre 2018 models the manual also says you should replace the caliper mounting bolts. These bolts see extreme heat cycles and the metal fatigues. I usually replace mine every other time, I take the calipers off.

My 2002 wears the original hardware. The right side has been off every tire change, but the left only a few times.

I worked at a Honda dealership when I was a young man for a year or so and I know one thing. If you ever changed these bolts when someone brought a bike in for a tire change and you charged them for them they would blow a gasket when you presented them the bill.

I would think the customer would have been given an estimate of cost before the work was started. That keeps tempers in check.


prs
 
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Put me down as another who never replaced the caliper mounting bolts. I do inspect them each time and I do use a torque wrench each time. Wow, $25 for each tire change and as many times I would have replace them (surpassed the 35 mark this year), that would make me want to ride something else.
 

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Now, rotor bolts I have replaced. Local dealer did not have them in stock, I ordered OE ones and later I ordered aftermarket titanium alloy ones. I replace when they break or when while installing they "feel funny", i.e., I detect that they "give" a little. Never have had to replace the after market ones, yet and it has been quite a while. I always remove the left rotor during tire changes with manual tire tools.


prs
 

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The new bike was coming in lighter than the old, by 89.99 pounds.

Management to Engineering team:
“Hey guys, we need to shave another .01 of the big girl somewhere. Advertising already has the brochures at the printers.”

Brake Engineer:
“I got this!!!”

Lawyer:
“Y’all go ahead, but put a hold on those Shop Manuals. I have another rewrite.”

Ha.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

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Heat Stress on those bolts

On the pre 2018 models the manual also says you should replace the caliper mounting bolts. These bolts see extreme heat cycles and the metal fatigues. I usually replace mine every other time, I take the calipers off.
Do you happen to know the part number for these bolts ?? I THINK the part # is 90134-MKC-A00 for a 2018 DCT. Looking around this site, I'm not sure because I'm not positive everyone is talking about the same bolts.
 

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I recently posted about my front brake pads wearing unevenly and that the upper right top pad was completely gone at 12,000mi. It was actually worn to the metal while the lower still had about 2mm left.

The upshot of it all was that the upper right puck was sticking. Everything was cleaned and seems not to be sticking with the new pads installed.

A lesson learned in reading the OM regarding wheel installation is that apparently, the Caliper mounting bolts need to be replaced every time you remove them.

Page 192 of the owners manual states in part "Use new mounting bolts when
installing the brake caliper".

I have never had a bike where that was the case. No one had them in stock and I had to order them. The three dealers I called had no idea they needed to be replaced each time you remove the wheel.

If you look at the bolts you can see they are hollow. Also never seen that before and perhaps that is why they are a one time use. Why would Honda to this ? To save weight?

Unless I am misreading or misunderstanding we will be paying about $25 for bolts at each front change. The bolts are #13 in the attached diagram.

If anyone has a contact at Honda it would be nice to know if we can replace those with solid bolts not needing to be replaced each change.
You need to start using your rear brake pedal along with the front brake lever when stopping.
The front lower caliper pistons are actuated by the rear brake pedal.
That is what is causing your pads to wear out unevenly, its not the bolts.
 

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Actually just the center pistons work off the rear brake circuit. The upper and lower pistons work off the front brake. But I agree, I doubt it's the bolts causing uneven wear. They would have to be seriously bent out of shape.
 

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You need to start using your rear brake pedal along with the front brake lever when stopping.
The front lower caliper pistons are actuated by the rear brake pedal.
That is what is causing your pads to wear out unevenly, its not the bolts.
What’s going on on GL1800? Has somebody started offering a bounty for resurrecting years old threads? :LOL: This is the second one I’ve seen tonight from 3+ years ago.
 

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Actually just the center pistons work off the rear brake circuit. The upper and lower pistons work off the front brake. But I agree, I doubt it's the bolts causing uneven wear. They would have to be seriously bent out of shape.
So if thats true, when bleeding the front brakes, lower bleed screw, why do you pump the rear brake pedal?
 

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So if thats true, when bleeding the front brakes, lower bleed screw, why do you pump the rear brake pedal?
Because both the lower and upper pistons are connected internally to the upper bleed nipple (as are the lower and upper pistons on the inner side of the caliper). The center pistons (on both inner and outer sides) are connected to the lower bleeders. There are internal drillings and passages that connect everything up. Confusing, but unfortunately I can't find a decent picture.
 

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I just clean the threads of the caliber bolts and put a dab of blue lock tight on the threads...now the rotor bolts are a different story. I have always removed my rotors from the front wheel with tire changes with my old wing..I found you could reuse the rotor bolts twice...and after that you better have extra rotor bolts on hand because they start snaping off at the factory torque spec.
 

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Another one for the list

Wow, we have yet another one for the list of "Best practices." Some folks think it is best to follow Honda's guidelines, others think it is best to do what makes sense. Me, I understand that Honda's recommendations are created by a committee and that process is rife with compromise. It may or may not be an optimal compromise for any particular owner's individual goals. I think if you properly torque your rotor bolts and put LocTite on them, there is no problem with not replacing them. I suspect my Goldwing with older rotor bolts stops identically to the one with bolts that are changed by Honda's recommendations.
.

The person on that committee that has the final say is the corporate lawyer.
 

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OOOOH boy, we got caught posting on an old thread.
Anyway, I didn't notice that the bolts had to be replaced in my 2018 manual.
 

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Because both the lower and upper pistons are connected internally to the upper bleed nipple (as are the lower and upper pistons on the inner side of the caliper). The center pistons (on both inner and outer sides) are connected to the lower bleeders. There are internal drillings and passages that connect everything up. Confusing, but unfortunately I can't find a decent picture.
True, You are correct.
Its important to not get lazy and just use the front lever.
Use the rear pedal and front lever and you will equal braking force on all 6 pistons on the front. The pad wear will be even at that point.
Max does a good job of explaining the brake system.
 

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They typically have never stocked such "needs to be replaced" hardware. Rotor bolts are a prime example.




My 2002 wears the original hardware. The right side has been off every tire change, but the left only a few times.




I would think the customer would have been given an estimate of cost before the work was started. That keeps tempers in check.


prs
Most people do not know the meaning of a estimate it is not a set in stone price.
 
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