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Some people always demand a definitive, either-or answer, but sometimes that's not available. Sometimes we have to make personal judgments. We factor many variables--risk, cost, mechanical aptitude, riding style, experience, skepticism--then hold our noses and jump to a conclusion. We read the manual with due diligence and due reverence for Honda engineers and their experience but also with healthy skepticism, because there's no way for us to know definitively why the manual calls for replacing these caliper bolts: could be lawyer speak; could be an abundance of caution; could be a genuine safety issue that we won't find out about until we grab an emegency handful of brake lever.

The caliper bolts aren't the only item like this, and it's not only Honda: Anybody ever reuse a crush washer? An o-ring? Personally, until I know more, given Honda's limitations on what I can know now, given what little I've learned over 55 years working on vehicles generally and brakes specifically, and factoring in some healthy skepticism about the genesis of some vehicle-manual warnings, I am not going to replace healthy-appearing caliper bolts (or crush washers or o-rings or rotor bolts) every time I loosen/tighten them. I might end up being very wrong and very sorry, but that's what it means to be personally responsible--I make the call and then accept the benefits without bragging and both the responsibilities and consequences without whining.
 

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Most people do not know the meaning of a estimate it is not a set in stone price.
True enough; BUT when the job cost rises above the estimated quote the work should stop until the customer approves.

prs
 

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True enough; BUT when the job cost rises above the estimated quote the work should stop until the customer approves.

prs
When I give estimate's I always give what the max could if problems come up because in automotive you can say no but you may need wrecker after you pay.
 

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Max does a good job of explaining the brake system.
His explanation is not correct. The front lever does indeed activate the center rear piston. He claims the rear is not linked to the front lever. It is. I can't find the post here, but someone went deep into the service manual and it is clear in there. It's is some tricky plumbing through the ABS system.

A bit of googling finds the same on the review sites and some in depth tech articles about the bike. When I saw the debate I dug in deep and was able to confirm it. It was an important issue for the way I ride, I needed a definitive answer.
 

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Better ask Hoopdc, he is the one that resurrected it, not me.
What does it hurt?
Good information for newbies to this forum.

WindBoy,

Thanks !! I DID resurrect this post....................even though I didn't know I did it. Thanks for giving that guy the answer. It was new TO ME. I held my tongue in asnwering him the way I want to for fear of being banned by the MODS.

Thanks again !!!!
 

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I wasn’t around 3 years ago….found this resurrection helpful..
Yeah, ok. The thread I went down the rabbit hole just before this was started in 2008 (and i didn't notice till quite awhile later). No big deal. And I did have the :LOL:
 
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His explanation is not correct. The front lever does indeed activate the center rear piston. He claims the rear is not linked to the front lever. It is. I can't find the post here, but someone went deep into the service manual and it is clear in there. It's is some tricky plumbing through the ABS system.

A bit of googling finds the same on the review sites and some in depth tech articles about the bike. When I saw the debate I dug in deep and was able to confirm it. It was an important issue for the way I ride, I needed a definitive answer.
Sort of right....

There is only one hydraulic hose to the rear caliper - so it's all three pistons or none. Under certain circumstances, the ABS unit can direct pressure to the rear caliper even if only the front brake lever is actuated as sort of a reverse linked braking system. It also does this during Hill Start Assist when only the front brake is applied. But the center pistons of the rear caliper are on a common connection with the upper and lower pistons (unlike the front) so they are all operated as one.
 

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Honda sells bolts. Dealers usually do not put in new bolts when servicing calipers. They don't usually stock them either but sometimes charge you if they think they can get away with it.
There is a simple test I use to decide if the bolts are mechanically still good. I hold a used bolt with the threaded end along side and parallel to a new bolt so the tip of the used bolt is at the underside of the head of the new bolt. The length should match. If not the bolt has been way over torqued and is junk.
If that is the case there are bigger problems like damaged aluminum threads in the caliper mounting flange :22yikes: .
I reuse all the caliper bolts. I clean out the internal and external threads (I use a wire brush made to clean gun barrels) and use Loctite blue #243. It is made to work on any area where there may be traces of brake fluid, oil etc.
Like PRS wrote, that is just how I do it but it never hurts to follow Honda's recommendations.
Clever to use that gun barrel brush on internal threads.
 

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Sort of right....

There is only one hydraulic hose to the rear caliper - so it's all three pistons or none. Under certain circumstances, the ABS unit can direct pressure to the rear caliper even if only the front brake lever is actuated as sort of a reverse linked braking system. It also does this during Hill Start Assist when only the front brake is applied. But the center pistons of the rear caliper are on a common connection with the upper and lower pistons (unlike the front) so they are all operated as one.
Appreciate the clarification very much!
 

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I don't know the specifics on this. You'd have to ask Mr Honda. I've attached a couple of snippets from the service manual. This is the only mention of it and if you can understand it, you're a smarter man than me. But if I had to guess, I'd say it would be operate the rear caliper during hard braking if the rider was only using the front brake. Similar to the reverse situation except it uses a seperate hydraulic line to the front calipers for combined/linked operation.

That's all I have.
IMG_20210504_194556661.jpg
IMG_20210504_194639570.jpg
 

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After reading this thread, I think the only safe move is to replace the entire bike - buy a brand new one - when you finally need to change the tires.
 
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