[kwthom]

There may be a sequence thing...if you create a private mesh group and then connect to wave intercom, it's possible that the wave group is 'private'.

EDIT: Keep reading the thread; it doesn't work this way (as of February, 2025). Allegedly, sometime in the future, this is supposed to change.

 

[kwthom]

Supposedly the Wave app allows connections with Cardos if they use the Wave app

We might be getting really close to needing one of your block diagrams...I can see this being a struggle for most if this isn't brain-dead easy to configure.

 

[kwthom]

From a message posted on the Sena Community yesterday:

"Sena plans on releasing the 2nd phase of WAVE Intercom, called Friends-Based WAVE Intercom, in early April. This feature will allow for private group intercom conversations with anyone on your Friends List, regardless of distance. If you want to start an intercom conversation with a friend who is more than 5 miles (8 km) away then you will need to use Friends-Based WAVE Intercom."

TL;DR: No private WAVE Intercom at this time.

Note that I also don't appreciate the sign in process (only using a Google or Apple account) to the WAVE app.

 

[kwthom]

<...>
@kwthom I'm guessing, and hoping, that >5 mile reference is just an obtuse way of saying "when you're out of mesh range" rather than an operating characteristic of the stuff working over cell data.

Honestly, tough to really sort out - unless one was to provide a patent number that could allude to how the app is functioning (in the digital realm) in response to that (arbitrary) 5 mile limit, along with the hardware in the communicator itself.

Best spit-balled guess would be they're using the app in the digital realm to monitor positions of those with appropriate hardware with WAVE functionality enabled - i.e. you have the WAVE app on a phone and your communicator sees the WAVE device. You get within that ~5 mile bubble (as the crow flies...) and the app then allows you to chat with riders B and C, for example. The device drops back to Mesh mode when it's unable to do so in WAVE mode. Thus, if it's on, then WAVE mode supersedes Mesh mode, because of the increased distance provided...somehow.

The next iteration provides that 'private' mode, which simply encodes you, and riders D and E to only communicate alone. How well that works...we'll haveta wait until it's released - then we'll get to beta test it for Sena. :lol:

 

[kwthom]

<...>
IMHO, if this app with the proposed Friend Group mode works well AND Sena does not lock down app to its own headsets , I see the demise of headsets like Sean 60S, Cardo ... cheap headsets will rule the roost as now Mesh is democratized ....

Now, this turns into a semantics problem that will totally confuse the masses. I see this one as a fault of Sena if they don't do their due diligence in educating the consumer here...see prior history on how well they have done.

Knowing the difference between WAVE and Mesh isn't gonna matter to those 'canyon carvers' that don't leave (often) the availability of cell service. WAVE is going to supercede Mesh/BT functionality when it's available. As you noted, it'll work well as long as you keep in cell service, not that it's using cell service but data capability from your phone.

Once you leave civilization behind, and WAVE becomes less viable out in the backwoods of Arkansas, or the Nevada deserts, or whatever National Park you happen to head toward, Mesh/BT capability will be the fallback mode of operation, complete with it's fallacies - like not being able to work from one brand to another.

THAT will be the problem to solve - eventually. WAVE might be it, but maybe again, it might not. Those still using Sena 10's and Sena 20's may end up migrating after all.

 

[kwthom]

<...>
I have an alternative solution -CB radio communication ain’t going away because it works anywhere and it’s simple (yet no longer cheap)

Ooooh, sorry. 📻

That's 1980's/1990's technology. Sure, it's possible to have it on Luxo-barge bikes, but they simply don't physically fit on...every other motorcycle in the fleet. There's enough complaints over the last couple few decades about how poorly CB works on the Wing, since back in the 1990's. Changing physics is...impossible.

Because, they're not attached to a motorcycle. I can take my $1000 of helmet/comm gear, along with my cell phone in my pocket of my jacket, and get on any motorcycle and have this WAVE/mesh technology with me.

Today. Right now. That's never been the case with using CB's, has it?

Ubiquitous is going to beat simple. Whether or not this technology is it is yet to be determined.

EDIT: The FCC (yeah, that group...) really screwed this all over. Back in the 1990's, it was tried to get FM capability as a legal, authorized emission for 11m CB radios. It was denied, and only in subsequent attempts (pushed by CB radio manufacturers) did CB having both AM and FM capability become legal...in 2021.

Yeah, about 30 years too late.

 

[kwthom]

Okay, look, you can have the final word, but this has exactly zero to do with the topic, so...I'm done.

Ever hear of J&M CB handlebar mounted CB that could fit any and all motorcycles or ANYTHING with handlebars?

Sure, they made several versions of these, but basically a modified walkie-talkie was the initial design of the device. Later, additional functions were added such as an intercom. Again, as you note, the challenge was getting the antenna system properly functioning. Most riders that I knew back then weren't really into dealing with all of the limitations. Just like today.

I tried telling that to John L. way back when, but... For the few that could live with those, it was effective - 20 years ago.

I see that J&M stopped offering this item many years ago...hmmm, wonder why? What did they replace it with? An FM handheld GMRS radio? Could that be a better mousetrap for bike-to-bike communication? Why wasn't that found on more bikes? Could it be a little issue from jurisdiction to jurisdiction called licensing? Honda, being the global country they are, has to market their machines (and accessories) to all of the markets they decide to enter for a 'Wing. That's why they (and all of the other motorcycle manufacturers today) continue to market their machines with communication relics of the past.

At the end of the day, CB is simply the lowest common denominator.

As I wrote earlier, ubiquitous is going to beat simple. Whether or not this technology is it is yet to be determined.

 

[kwthom]

<...>
As soon as you jump onto the mobile data backbone, I see no reason to put a 5 mile cap on things. It can be global. I bet that is not a real tech or legal limitation, or a marketing decision to introduce some limit and gut their utility because they didn't want to beat the snot out of Cardo too fiercely, but rather just some garbled in translation faux spec speak that will go by the wayside.

Sena is limiting their infrastructure backbone at the onset of this technology...keeping me in AZ and you in MD from having that 'bike-to-bike' chat, when a phone call is probably a more effective medium for communicating like that.

What are people interested in, while using a communicator? Keeping in "active" contact with the rest of their group of riders. Sena is arbitrarily using that distance limit for capacity, I'd wager.

 

[kwthom]

<...>
I don't immediately see the magic number 5 miles shouted out here. I look forward to fiddling with this in the near future.

Five mile number mentioned in their spam-filled forum: https://community.sena.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/34766470786580-WAVE-Intercom-App-Now-Available

Geo-Based WAVE Intercom initiates a connection based on your geographic location. Riders within the WAVE Zone, which is a radius of 5 miles (8 km), can connect instantly in a group intercom by double tapping the Mesh Intercom Button. This means that riders need to be within this radius together to start an intercom conversation. Once the intercom is started, users on your Friends List will remain connected regardless of distance. However, those not on your Friends List will be disconnected if they move more than 6 miles (10 km) away.

 

[kwthom]

There's some data magic going on between mesh 3 and mesh 2, since there's no hardware change.

Thus, the reduction in 'channels' from 9 to 6.

That's the incompatibly between them.

 

[kwthom]

"Hot mess" - some things never change with Sena it seems.

Nice work.

 

[kwthom]

Noted the Sena Motorcycle app has been updated (at least the Android version...) in the last 36 hours or so.

Looks a lot better than previously released version.

 

[kwthom]

Updated for Apple too...
but sadly the Sena Motorcycle app no longer supports the wifi adapters that were used to automatically update headset firmware. I prefer the adapters to having to do updates via the phone or PC. Just plug in and go do something else.<...>

Maybe, maybe someone over at Sena Central has figured out that that device is more problem than it's worth.

Sorry, for me the ten-ish minutes to do an update - and physically monitor its progress - has meant that for me, a failure to update a device has never happened.

Kinda like an anvil - when it's the right tool for the job...

Yes, they probably now have their communication protocol optimized for app-to-headset updates as well.

As we keep preachin' when in doubt, make sure you're fussin' with the headset with a current software build.

 

[kwthom]

Understand the frustrations.
I feel the disappointment about Wave's inability to integrate in to the 2018+ configuration
<...>

My 0.02 on that...

It's such a marginal use case...yeah, might get around to fixing it, but need to satisfy the >90% of the user base first.