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Bill, Listen to me! They are setting you up! If you go for a test ride on a GL1800, you will have to have one! The addiction will never go away! You will have this monkey on your back all the time your not riding it! :shock:

Upon more serious consideration....... Go ahead! You deserve it! The more the merrier. :yes:

Bill
:yw1:
 
Sorry, I forgot about the tires. I have 8,500 miles on the original Dunlops and they look I should get at least another 1500 to 2000 miles on them.
Bill :yw1:
 
Hi bkoehler,

I currently own a '95 ST1100 and an '03 GL1800ABS. I did a lot of research before buying the ST about five years ago from the original owner. It only had about 2400 miles on it and looked brand new even though it was already four years old. I thought it was the perfect bike for me although I'd never had the chance to ride one. I liked the looks of the bike, the power, and the handling I'd read about. But that bike kills my back, wrists, and knees. It just doesn't have the ergonomics I need. For a while I thought maybe I was just getting too old (at 46? Yeah, right!) or losing interest in riding. But I got a chance to rent an 1800 while visiting Las Vegas in early April of this year. By the last week in April I was riding my new '03 Wing. After three months I've got 8,900 miles on it and I love it more all the time. Absolutely no regrets. The ST just turned over 5,000 miles as I rode it into the dealer to get the carbs rebuilt. (I'll be sure to put gas stabilizer in my bikes in the future during storage.) And when I get the ST back it's going up for sale. It really is a great bike, but not for me. So I'd also advise you to rent an 1800 or get the longest test ride possible. For me eight hours was more than enough. As soon as I got it out on the open road my mind was made up.
1. Buffeting - Depends on rider height. My ST is better than the Wing. I'm 5'9". If I duck my head down on the ST it's perfectly still. In normal riding position my head is up in the air stream and little or no buffeting. On the Wing I keep the WS to lowest position because I like to look over it instead of through it. I get buffeting in that position.
2. I look over it at all times so fogging isn't a problem for me.
3. Yes, WS is adjustable.
4. I average about 39-40mpg and around 250 miles per tank max.
5. I'd rate the Wing slightly better than the ST because the most frequent maintenance, oil changing, can be done without removing any plastic. Haven't done the Wing air filter yet but it takes more time than the ST.

Ralph Wenzl
 
I went from a GL1200 to a 94 Concours to a GL1800. To this day I still believe the ST1100 is the best all around touring bike on the market from early 90's until today. The ST1300 is a better sport bike but can't hold a candle to a ST1100 in day after day high milage riding. The ST1100 has longer lasting tires than the ST1300 that work well enough and it has the perfect combination of comfort, power, and handling for the long haul. The GL1800 is too much of a boat for most people. I am still trying to determine if I will admit that I made a mistake in buying the 1800 instead of an 02 ST1100. I hate to admit I made a mistake. I now have 37,000 miles since June 02 and I never forget that this boat is just way bigger than I need. I have no idea how anyone could have lived with a GL1500 since heavier and more sluggish than the 1800.
I sure agree with the rec'm to get a long test ride before jumping from a sure thing with the ST1100 to something that you may not like as well.
I am quite sure that I would have been happier with either a ST1100 or else buying another Concours and swapping out all my high milage comfort items from the 94 to the new bike.
Any interest in considering some type of swap, Black 02 1800 for 02 ST1100.
 
I also had an ST 1100 before my 02 GW. The Gold wing is the best bike I have owned. Love the low center of gravity and the power. It seems like the next progression in the chain of great bikes. I've owned a PC 800, ST 1100, Valk. Interstate and the GW. The Gw is the one I'm planning on keeping for a long time - it is a joy to ride.
 
Wing a mistake?

Old Turtle,
I am sorry to hear anyone has a bike that is not their favorite. We have a rider in our oatmeal gang that has had a Concours and has an 1800 and a Suzucki dual purpose bike. He constantly vascillates back and forth about whether he should sell his Wing. We have another in the oatmeal gang that often says the same thing. Mostly these fellows like to always ride something else, what ever it is.

I dropped my bike the other day in a situation of turning around on a narrow road with eroded gutters and a rain swollen water crossing with water tracked out both sides. If the bike weighed 300 pounds, I might not have dropped it, but the 1000 pound machine was too far over from a deep rut to bring back up and I had to step off of it and right it.

That happens about every year or two, or about once per 75,000 miles.

However, for the other 74,999.998 miles, I have sheer enjoyment of the very best kind. Part of it is the joy of riding in high luxury. Part of it is the marvel, even awe, of the thousands of well designed parts. Yes if it was silent, it would be better, but I do not know of anything that is more technically excellent.

I wished that you and everyone could enjoy their bike as much as I do mine, and I wish for you to have such a bike, what ever it is.

In less than two years, I will be 70 and another decade will be 80 after that, and know that there will come a time when I won't be able to pick the Wing up if it falls down and goes boom. Until then, like the guys in Second Hand Lion with their airplane, I plan to do my best to do my 1,000 miles per week until I get some time to go do some serious riding.


Image
 
Well bkoehler, as usual on this board there are a lot of good replies.

Of the three bikes, ST 1100, ST 1300, and GL 1800 the easiest to eliminate is the ST 1300 which is better than the 1100 in every individual aspect of the bike. As a package though the 1100 is a much better bike.

The best choice between the GL 1800 and the ST 1100 is less clear.
For the 25% of the time you ride two up there will be no doubt that the GL 1800 is the better choice. My wife did not like to ride on the ST and loves the wing.
If you compare with the stock ST 1100 screen there will be less wind noise on the wing, but more buffeting on the wing when you have the shield lowered to look over it. I'm going the try a wind bender, because I look over the screen. After market shields will do wonders to stop the wind noise and buffeting of the ST 1100.
There is no comparison in fuel milage. The ST gave me 45-54 Honda mpg. Riding similarly the 1800 gives me 25-44 Honda mpg.
Handling depends on the speed and road.
On marginal roads the ST is great for a sport/touring bike. On gravel the ST is much better.
The wing turns in easier at almost any speed. At low speeds the wing is amazing for it's weight, but the 1100 is more controlable.
Overall on a decent road the wing handles as well right up until the extra 2 hundred pounds takes over when the turns tighten.
Weather protection is better on the wing, especially if you add the complete set of Baker or Tulsa wings.
The ST is easier and more comfortable to ride in the rain.
The dumbest motorcycle trade I've ever done was when I traded my 01 ST1100 for a 03 ST1300. Trading my 1300 for the 1800 wing was one of the best decisions I've made.
This board and the after market support for the wing have really added to the pleasure of owning the GL 1800
I really miss the ST1100 though, and plan to find one to park beside the wing in the future.
Enjoy making your decision, they're both great bikes.

RaT Bake
 
While I don't have an 1800, I do have a 1500 and last December 31, I purchased a used 1,100 mile '01 ST1100 thinking it would be a nice ride for when I'm riding 1 up.

What I've found is that while the ST handling is superb, there is quite a bit of wind buffeting and I'm using an extra tall Clearview shield. I also find that my wrists hurt and I miss the creature comforts of the Wing. I've now got 2500 miles on the ST, but am clearly finding more enjoyment on the Wing (which I put around 16k per year on). It's really easy to put 300-400 miles per day on the Wing.

If I was doing it over again, I'd buy an 1800 (especially if I could find a Magenta one), but my 1500 is doing just fine for the riding that I do and given that it's only got 46k on the odometer, it'll be around for a good little while yet.
 
My last two bikes before trading in for the 04 Wing this year were ST1100s -- a '91 that I had from '91 through '99 and then a 2001/A that I enjoyed even more for two years. (The missing three years there were bike-less because the '91 was totalled by a blind car driver and it took me that long to get the "gotta have a bike" juices flowing again.)

In other words, I was a big fan of the ST1100. But its achilles heel for me -- perhaps because of my 6'1" height -- was the wind roar caused by its fairing and windshield design. I tried many after-market shields, but none worked adequately well to solve the deafening wind noise problem. I even added a +4 Clearview but found that in windy conditions the bike's front-end handling was compormised.

A secondary problem for me was that, at 57, my body just could no longer adjust to those ST ergonomics, no matter how much I appreciate that they provide greater control over the bike. I got tired of having bad upper arm and shoulder pain after the first hour of riding. (I could tolerate the knee pain; I'd just stretch the legs out occasionally, without the aid of highway pegs.)

A third factor was that I wanted to take my wife with me and just didn't feewl the ST was well enough suited to that for my standards. (I know lots of couples ride the ST11 two-up, but it was not for me or mine.)

Fourth, I was attracted to the extra features of the Wing -- the factory cruise and CB and intercom.

And the verdict now, after putting 13,000 miles on the Wing so far this season? It was the right decision for me.

BUT....

I do not find the Wing to be as sporty as the ST was, in spite of this being the claim of many other ST riders who have moved to the GL18. Maybe I'm just a crappy rider (though others have told me differently), but I find that the weight, bulk and ergonomcis (in particular the rider-handlebar relationship and the related rider posture requirements) of the Wing mitigate against the kind of graceful and precise sport riding that I came to expect on the STs. I had hoped that the twin spar aluminum frame would make up for the relatively greater weight and bulk and more upright seating position of the Wing, but in my opinion it does not.

On the other hand, would I want to have the Wing modified to give me sportier ergonomics (a slightly forward lean, with some upper body weight braced against narrower bars)? No. (Though I do wish Honda would make such a mutant Wing, just as an option that'd be very tempting). I'm willing to sacrifice some loss of sporty rinding control for extra comfort and day-long endurance. And the saving of my hearing.

Because, most importantly, I would never be willing to give up what is for me a wonderfully quiet air pocket behind the Wing's windshield. I'm afraid I don't know what some of the other posters are referring to when they complain of turbulence on the Wing. Compared to the ST, the Wing's fairing/windshield design offers me a still and quiet air pocket with nothing that I would characterize as bothersome turbulence. And I have the shield set at slightly less than its fully extended height, allowing me to look well over it on all but the most extreme "whoopdey-doo" road contours.

It is true that, on any bike, you will experience the quietest ride if you wear an open face helmet; with a full-face helmet and its shield totally closed, I do notice some flapping/clapping noise that is generated by some aspect of the air flow over, under and/or around that partial cue-ball shape.

Hope that helps you go into the decision with a better perspective on the pros and cons.
 
As a former ST1100 ABS owner for 10 years and 72,000 miles, then a ST1300 ABS owner for 19 months and 24,000 miles and now a 2004 GL1800 ABS owner with only 2000 miles, please allow me to offer my opinions. Some statements by others are offered as fact, when we all know that our thoughts are actually opinion, so I offer mine as just that.

I bought the 93 ST1300 new and loved it for the 10 years I had it and I always thought that it was the best 2 up sport touring bike on the planet. The wife and I had demoed the GL1500 but thought it was too automotive in overall feeling for us, so stayed with the ST1100. While I loved the ST1100 as a sport touring bike, I found it a bit lacking in the sport department , sort of the "your father's Oldsmobile" syndrome. To address this I had an assortment of sport bikes at the same to satisify my adrenalin addiction. Bikes such as VFR's Super Hawks and finally a RC51 did the trick for me. Many times I would come home from a long trip on the ST1100, park it and take a ride on my sport bike to "get the blood flowing".

In June, 2002 I was President of the Honda Sport Touring Association and as such was invited by American Honda to the first Press Intro 2 day ride fo the new ST1300. I immediately fell in love with the more sporting nature, light handling, exciting power and sound and overall personality of the bike. I phoned my dealer during the ride and told him to get me the first one he could get. It was delivered near the end of Nov, 02 and I put 24,000 miles on it and loved every one. It satisfied my sporting nature enough that I sold my RC51. At the same time it was comfortable enough that the wife and I enjoyed several long trips. My longest 2 up days were about 600 miles and longest solo days were 900 and 700 on succeeding days during a California trip.

The last couple of years that we had the ST1100, my wife began to have problems with her knees and the bend required for her legs on the pegs tended to aggravate that. While the ST1300 at first seemed better, we found that with her getting a bit older, the knee and leg position was becoming a problem again.

After the ST1300 Intro ride in June of 2002, we borrowed a GL1800 from Honda and rode 2200 miles around California. I enjoyed the trip, and my wife loved it, especially the more comfortable seating position and lack of knee pain. We thought of this recently when it became apparent that if I wanted to continue to enjoy her company on bike trips we had to make a change. We are both now retired and have the time and inclination to do more touring. With that in mind, I sold the ST1300 and bought a beautiful candy red 2004 ABS GL1800 in July of 2004.

Sorry for the long prelude, but thought it might clarify my thoughts and impressions on this bike comparison. In contrast to others that preferred the ST1100 over the ST1300, I absolutely preferred the ST1300. I had added the Honda top box, Honda AM/FM radio, J&M intercom, Sargent seat, Honda heated grips and combined with that wonderful electric windshield, it was perfect for me. I rode a ST1100 just like my former one when the guy who bought my ST1300 rode it and I was really surprised at how much better the ST1300 felt to me after riding the ST1300 for so long.

I thought that my memories of the ST1100 were of a much better bike, but after getting used to the ST1300, this ride proved otherwise to me. So, while some say that ST1100 was a better package, I disagree at least in my case and I'm sure that the vast majority of ST1300 owners on the ST1300 discussion group would say the same. By the way, the ST1100 owner bought my ST1300 after one ride.

Someone mentioned the ST1100 got more tire mileage and that may be true, but only if running different tires. In comparing apples to apples, I found no difference. I ran radials and consistantly got about the same mileage out of tires on both bikes. My rear tires only lasted 6,000 miles on either bike and that is probably because of my preference for higher speeds when travelling. I know guys who have run harder tires, some non radials on both bikes and ridden a bit slower and gotten better mileage.


I think the windscreen buffeting is about the same on the GL as the ST1100. I ran a Clearview +4 on the ST1100 and this helped a lot over the stock screen. My wife and I wear all weather gear (Darien, Kilamanjaro, full face helmets) and find the GL to be a bit hot due to it doing a very good job of blocking the air. I think we will have to add Baker wings to get enough air to us to be comfortable in warm weather.

While the built in audio devices on the GL are nice, the radio tuner is not as good as the Honda add on tuner for the ST1300 and I prefer the VOX control for the intercom that the J&M offered rather than the on all the time feature of the GL intercom.

The torque of the GL1800 engine is wonderful. While the ST1300 has more power and less weight and is faster, you have to use a few more revs. The super low end of the GL1800 is wonderful, in my opinion.


I only included the ST1300 in this discussion, because my opinions do not agree with other opinions in this thread, so I felt a need to defend the ST1300. So, getting to the original question at hand, ST1100 vs GL1800. My thoughts are that the GL is more comfortable for 2 up riding. My back is still trying to adjust to the upright seating position and so far is giving me more problems than either ST did. I liked being able to gas up on the ST's at 275-300 miles. The GL requires about 200-220 for me. At first I thought this was a problem, but so far, with my back aches, I am ready to get off anyway. :cry:

In my opinion, I think you would be very happy going from a ST1100 to a GL1800. Knowing what I know now, I would choose the GL1800 over the ST1100 for my personal bike. Doing as much 2 up riding as I do now, and with my wife's knee problems I agree with our choice of the GL1800 over the ST1300. If I were riding solo or if my wife had younger knees, however, I would go back to the ST1300 in a minute.
 
While I havent ridden a ST, I currently have a PC800 and Yammie R1. I was bit by the GW bug quite a while ago and almost had a 1200 fall into my hands prior to buying my PC. I have to agree with the opinions of the 1800 as I just test rode a buddies and ordered a "new" 2003 from an out of state dealer. I ride quite a lot of miles on my 2 current bikes... even with the rain this year I am looking at over 8k between the two (22,000 on my 2002 R1 total). In one word to describe my 20 or so miles I got to ride the wing.... INCREDIBLE. I have two reasons that I initially started considering selling my PC and buying the wing, both of which were totally satisfied once I looked at and rode it. Those reasons were power and bag room. The new goldwings have a lot of both. My personal opinions on wind buffeting and such dont really matter because to me they are all nice after getting off my 2002 R1.
 
Great to hear from you, Fred, and to hear that you too have come over to the GL18 side.

I take it this means that I should be fully accepted at next year's STAR... (if the former Prez of the Honda Sport Touring Association can ride a Wing, so can I, right?)....

Those labels -- sport bike, sport touring bike, luxury touer, etc. -- are all pretty subjective and vague at their outer edges, but I'm inclined to say the ST1100 was a sport-tourer, the ST13 is a touring oriented sport bike, and the GL18 is a touring bike with the sportiest characteristics of any others in that category.
 
"I take it this means that I should be fully accepted at next year's STAR... (if the former Prez of the Honda Sport Touring Association can ride a Wing, so can I, right?)...."

Well, I guess we'll both find out when we show up on our Wings. :D

Actually we have a lot of HSTA members that ride Wings. It's about good people riding with good people, and we don't care what you ride.

I think we should give the rest of them some a little razzin' about still riding "mini bikes."

Looking forward to seeing you at STAR in Lexington!

Fred Z.
 
Discussion starter · #34 ·
new wing

Well, there is a wing in my future. Thanks to all of the responses, they did help me make the decision. I decided to keep the ST as well and see what I really like better. Pick it up on saturday and will give my first impression then.

Thanks again
Bill

2004 Candy Dark Cherry GL1800 ABS
 
ouuuuu! And that CBC Wing color is damn near exactly the same color as your 02 ST, Bill!! That was a big selling point for me in getting my '01 ST. Loved that color. This is going to make your ultimate decision even more difficult. I'd recommend you keep both of 'em if at all possible.
 
Discussion starter · #36 ·
OK, so I picked up the CBC wing today. The color is almost exactly the same as the 02 ST, awesome. The bike is everything everyone has said, outrageous!. However, it already has some minor scrapping on the right side lower panel cause I got a little over zealous in the turns. It sure does handle nice! Thank god its going to be nice tomorrow, I know what I am doing!

Thanks again to everyone for their opinions, you all seem like a great bunch.

Bill Koehler
Saylorsburg, PA
04 CBC ABS
 
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