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Re: Your fault.

Captain Dan said:
If you are poor it is because of the choices you have made in your life. Your life is your responsibility. Don't complain if you are poor because you failed to pay attention and learn in school. Don't complain you are poor if you failed to develope job skills to better yourself.
I did very well in school, have an IQ in the top 1% of our nation, and have still managed to get laid-off when companies outsourced to India & China.
Then I joined the unemployed masses and was called "over qualified".
Now I'm cheerfully under-employed and managed by under-qualified & over-paid...
I'm not poor but I'm pissed.
 
JokerGuy said:
I am unhappy.

My son volunteered for 4 years - that was up last August.

He has been in Afghanistan since Jan last year.

His company's replacements arrived, assumed my son's company's duties, and my son was to fly out yesterday to Kandahar, then to Kuwait, then leave for the states tomorrow.

They come in yesterday while all packed up and ready to leave and tell them they are not coming back to the states until June. Can you imagine how devastated they were as well as the families back home?

My son gladly accepted the 8 month service extension beyond what he volunteered for (they keep them another 3+ months after they return to the states too). Now it will likely be a full year beyond what he volunteered for by the time he gets out - and to tell them that the same day they are suppose to be coming home after counting down the days for months.
What is the difference between forcibly extending the service of a VOLUNTEER and drafting someone??? We are abusing the patriotism of our volunteers so Mr Bush does not have to take the political hit for a draft. The way I figure it only 75% of our forces are volunteer, the rest are drafted exclusively from the armed forces by extending their service.

It is not right.

...

God bless all of our troops - they deserve better
Joker,

I feel you pain, My son is serving as well and have been extended. I server for over 20 years (Currently in the Fleet reserve and subject to recall to active duty).

One thing we must understand is that anybody entering the military for the first time may sign for 2-6 years active duty, BUT the contract is actually for 8 years part of the time is schedule for inactive duty. The President has the authority to utilize that inactive time as Active Duty. This is the part that most people do not read on thier enlistment - reenlistment contracts....

I will finally retire and be done with my obligation in 4 days. I will be officially retired with 30 years. The few pay the price for the liberty and freedom of the many.

GOD bless your son and the rest of the volunteers who un-volunteerably extended doing what they freely agreed to do.
 
Smitty said:
What the hell has this got to do with motorcycles?
It has to do with General discussion about being an American and the price of freedom that we enjoy....

If you don't like the post don't open it.... You are FREE to choose not to read it because you are an AMERICAN.
 
After reading all the posts to this point i think that maybe some of us have forgotten what is was like across the pond or never went. Now granted that there are things wrong in the USA however having spent 20 years in the Navy and Air Force and having been stationed over seas i will take the USA over ANY other place on earth. You may not be able to drive across country because the car is in poor conditon but you Have a car most people across the pond don't even have a car (they walk), sorry that you are having trouble taking care of your house, but at least you have a house, they may not have anything to live in. If you don't have a job, try looking for one, you will not start at the top and work your way to the bottom it is the other way round, so you will not get $50 an hr. you get $6 an hr. which is better than 0 an hr. there are jobs out there, don't be on welfare and tell me that i owe you because you are poor, i am all ready paying for every thing you have with my taxes. Those over there would love to have a car to cross through those states, house, job and freedom to worship how they want without worrying about whether your neighborh will try to kill you because he does not agree that you have the right god because it is not the same god he worships. There are only a few other countries where you would even come close to the freedoms that we have in the USA. If we sit back on our hands and try talking to all of the terroists then then you will have blowing your front door down so that they can kill you and every one that you know and care about because you don't beleive the same as they do. JMHO
 
Silver spoon

In Ohio waiters and bartenders make a whopping $2.30 per hour. These poor souls are not, I repeat, not counted as unemployed. They are under-employed. They are deliberately kept from working full time so that their employers don't have to pay benefits or minimum wage. So they have to work 2 jobs.
Your first point, that Newsweek Magazine falsified a poll is without merit. How about CNN, ABC, NBC, and 20 other's polls that conclude the same thing? Has Hannity, Rush, or any other neo-con conducted a poll that I haven't seen? I just bet that if they conducted a poll in your gated comunity they would get a different result.
Electricity, safe to drink running water, air conditioning? I think you had better check with your fellow citizens in the gulf states that are still feeling the effects of a storm that happened 2 years ago.
Home ownership is 70% for whites. 52% for Blacks, 40% for hispanics. Do you think that all the apartments you pass every day in you Lexus are empty?
You remind me of the queen who said, "They don't have any bread? Well then, let them eat cake!"
 
Re: Silver spoon

jbivens544 said:
In Ohio waiters and bartenders make a whopping $2.30 per hour. These poor souls are not, I repeat, not counted as unemployed. They are under-employed. They are deliberately kept from working full time so that their employers don't have to pay benefits or minimum wage. So they have to work 2 jobs.......
Minimum wage applies to full or part-time workers.
Who is Covered

The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) establishes standards for minimum wages, overtime pay, recordkeeping, and child labor. These standards affect more than 100 million workers, both full‑time and part‑time, in the private and public sectors.
.
.
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Employers may pay employees on a piece‑rate basis, as long as they receive at least the equivalent of the required minimum hourly wage rate. Employers of tipped employees (i.e., those who customarily and regularly receive more than $30 a month in tips) may consider such tips as part of their wages, but employers must pay a direct wage of at least $2.13 per hour if they claim a tip credit. They must also meet certain other conditions.
Tips count against wages, that's why they get away with paying them less than the minimum.

I agree with you though, even minimum wage is just barely above the poverty level.
 
Italian Stallion in answer to this statement......


"No one has mentioned the millions of Americans that do not have medical coverage because they can't afford it. How many Americans do you think would have free medical care with the 300 Billions that our President is spending on barbarians? 300 thousand millions! "


Not one single person.......The money would have been used somewhere else. The insurance problem existed long before this war started and nobody did anything about it then except talk. What makes you think it would be any different.
 
jbivens554. I'm guessing your stats are accurate in this statement....


" Home ownership is 70% for whites. 52% for Blacks, 40% for hispanics."

Now compare them to the stats that talk about what people were doing when they were offered a free education' and the stats that compare recitivism rate in the State Penitentiaries. Compare them to that stats that talk about crack addicts.

I refuse to apoligize for going back to school and completing my education and then working hard all my life. I own a home because of the decisions I've made all my life. Am I blessed....You bet your Ass I am. Did I ask anybody to give me the things I have...No way....It's time to quit making excuses for people and their actions.
 
Re: Your fault.

Captain Dan said:
If you are poor it is because of the choices you have made in your life. Your life is your responsibility. Don't complain if you are poor because you failed to pay attention and learn in school. Don't complain you are poor if you failed to develope job skills to better yourself. Don't complain you are poor when the first thing on your grocery list is beer and chips. Poor people are poor because they KEEP doing things to stay poor. Rich people are rich because they KEEP doing things to stay rich.
Can I get you some frys with that?

I am spending $500 a year on lottery tickets, raffles, etc.... That is
trying to better myself, right?

Hey, is this the new OTB???? Cool 8)

Herb
 
Discussion starter · #30 ·
Jeez folks, just thought some would appreciate "A point of view" not take it as a personal affront!

A lotta truth in those words (They weren't mine btw).

Though we are the preeminent culture on the planet, in many respects it has many looking through Rose Colored Glasses.

Not appreciating what one has is what Sloth, Greed or Avarice??

Oh yeah, the line about driving cross country did have me imagining doing it on the 'Wing.

Bradford
 
I ran a automtive garage for the last eight years. I have had many people come in wanting me to fix there car/truck for noting because they are on disability. Yet they seem much healthier and younger than me. One even told he had to get his truck fixed because he cut and hauled wood for cash off the record but drew full disability. When I cut and haul wood for my mother in law it seems to be a full days work. All these people tell me a lot about how dissatified they are with what is going on in our country, and if we were not spending so much on defense we could be paying them more welfare.
 
Has anyone ever noticed the Escalade with these $5,000 tires and wheels sitting in front of a mobile home on the south side of town. then they complain because their only job is part time at Wal Mart. Is this a problem?
Patriot, many of your comments are well taken and right on the money. I also do not feel sorry for those that are too lazy to even try to improve themselves or flat out have their priorities messed up. However, that is not what I was referring to.

We have a country that is spending hundreds of billions of dollars of taxes of hard working people propping up countries overseas and at the same time we have our schools begging us for tax levy increases because they can't afford to buy books and pay teachers, in spite of the fact that we are already being taxed to death. Don't you think there is something wrong with that picture?

I'm not sure what the complainers want in a country. The "millions" who can't afford to be involved in the freedoms have made that choice.
There are millions of hard working people in this country who have spent many years learning their trade and are very skilled, and now find themselves either out of work because the work has gone overseas or their company has found it is more profitable to accept lower quality work and hires lower skilled workers, which drives down wages. Everyone here complains about the lack of qualified mechanics to work on their bikes. Why do you think that is? The reason is that all the talented mechanics have had to move on to other trades. The ironic thing is that many of these complaints come from people who bill $150 -200 per hour but can't see why a shop charges $75/hr with a mechanic being paid at $10 per hour.
I remember when cross-country trips were almost free. Yes, free. You stood on the side of the road and "thumbed" across the country. Do people not know that the cost of gasoline is cheaper today than it was in 1966, relatively speaking. Managing funds and having budgets is a key to having the opportunity of criss-crossing the country.
Two comments here. First, try thumbing across the country today and you will likely get there in a casket, and that assumes that anyone today would even be crazy enough to pick up a hitchhiker.

Second, in 1966 even though gas was relatively more expensive, today it takes a bigger chunk of our earnings. That should tell you something right there. In 1966 a man was able to make enough money to support a wife and 4 kids and still live comfortably. Today, that is a rarity. Both spouses work in most families today, which is mostly driven out of necessity. The average family would live at the poverty level if only one spouse worked.

However, I councel with people everyday about their financial situation. Every person in this God-given country has the opportunity to simply build their own business with the smallest of investment of funds,
That is exactly part of the problem. It is getting to the point where you can't be successful unless you start your own company. Then you can become one of the ones paying pitiful wages and making a ton of money from other people's sweat. You can then ride a Goldwing and your workers can drive a 15 year old Corolla.

Unfortunately we do not all have the same talents. Some people have the talent for running a successful business. Others have great skills with their hands or some other talent. That does not make them less important, any less hard working, or any less skilled, just different. Plus, not everyone can own their own business. Someone has to build the cars, repair the TVs and stereos, make the food, etc. Where do you think we would be if everyone was a business owner? There wouldn't be anybody to hire. Well, I guess we could hire all those illegal immigrants. But then again, our government will probably start giving those illegals money to start their own landscaping companies because they are a depressed minority and the rest of us will be working for them cutting grass for minimun wage.

Anyone who goes 6 years without a raise is stuck in a rut. There must be some sort of glue that prevents you from looking for some other opportunity.
You are so right. And my situation is becoming typical. I am personally doing quite well compared to many others, but the future is looking bleak.
The new hires at my company are coming in at half of what I make. They are actually looking for unskilled workers instead of experienced ones. Skilled workers are being offered pitiful wages. I have looked for employment in my field elsewhere and am finding the same thing at other companies as well. I would have to take a serious drop in pay to leave. Changing fields is not an option because entry level pay would kill me financially. Going back to school part time would take 8 years, and at 49 years old, I would be close to retirment by that time. So yes, I am glued to my situation and have no choice but to ride it out and watch as my standard of living decreases. Unless something improves, this will probably be my last motorcycle.

Just my thoughts. Oh, by the way, I'm holding off on the chrome wheels so I can travel across the country on my Goldwing this coming summer
.
Good for you. As for me, I am putting off travelling across the country this year so that I can pay the mortgage. And unfortunately a lot of people won't be able to ride a motorcycle at all this year because they can barely afford to feed their kids. I guess it's all relative isn't it?
_________________
 
Since the subject was brought up obviously for the purpose of getting some sort of response.

I'm not sure what most of what has been said here has to do with the level of dissatisfaction the majority of Americans have about the performance of our President. It almost sounds more like an attempt to distract from the real issue.
The issues involve the poor judgment and decisions that have been made concerning the support or lack of support of Iraq in their quest to become a democratic country and if our troops should be in harms way while helping to defend that country.

Being a 100% disable Vietnam Veteran I can speak from experience, the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are trying to survive and helping their buddies get back to The World in one piece. What would anyone expect one of our troops to say if put in front of a camera and ask the question "what do you think the United States roll in Iraq is"?

I promise you, the ones that are chosen to be interviewed are screens before they go on camera.

As far as being an American and enjoying all of the benefits such as air conditioning, free travel, freedom of religion and freedom of speech and all of the other things, it not because we sent our troops to Iraq and Afghanistan that we can enjoy these things.

We were not in Afghanistan and Iraq when the World Trade Center buildings were knocked down and 3,000 people were killed. Those people were killed because of a bunch of fanatics. It can and most likely will happen again. We just as well be prepared for it.

Do you feel safer than you did before all of this crap started? I don't know that I personally feel any different but I'm not one of the family members of the ones killed in the Trade Center disaster or a parent that has lost a son or daughter in Iraq or Afghanistan.

I hope no one that thinks, because of our being able to enjoy the benefits of being an American Citizen, that we should just sit back and not speak out when our current government is taking us in the wrong direction, are you?

It's things like what Dave has said that makes this country what it is. We will continue to defend this great county and our way of life. Grant it, there are many things that we need to do better but we are not going to get better at it by spending so much money and lives doing it.

I think we can have major differences politically and still have a healthy relationship about our passion for Goldwings.
 
My prayers and repect for your sons and daughters whom are serving this county beyond the call of duty.
 
24 Carat said:
Jeez folks, just thought some would appreciate "A point of view" not take it as a personal affront!
Bradford
Yea riiiiggghhht! :roll:
 
Discussion starter · #37 ·
weengers said:
24 Carat said:
Jeez folks, just thought some would appreciate "A point of view" not take it as a personal affront!
Bradford
Yea riiiiggghhht! :roll:
OK Weengers, don't be so damn vague there buddy, put some words in my mouth, tell me what my ulterior motive was/is !!

Bradford
 
Bradford-

To help avoid misunderstandings, when you include someone else's words in your post you should highlight them and click on the quote button. After you hit Submit, their words will appear inside a quote box, and your words/comments are kept separate. Otherwise, it's difficult for people to understand what part of your posting is your words and thoughts, and which parts are actually from someone else.
 
24 Carat said:
OK Weengers, don't be so damn vague there buddy, put some words in my mouth, tell me what my ulterior motive was/is !!
Bradford
I think I've said all I care to say. appreciate the offer though. :wink:
 
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