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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I keep hearing and reading that "Speed Kills". To make it Wing related, speed on a motorcycle kills. I'm sorry, but I think that's a load.

In a cage, on a bike, in a semi, bad judgement, dumb decisions, not paying attention is what kills. Sure faster speeds can make injuries worse and/or kill. But it was the wrong move at the wrong time that causes accidents and/or death.

It's kind of like saying, "Guns Kill". No, people using guns kill. No gun has ever killed anyone. If guns weren't available, folks would use knives, bats, hammers, whatever.

So, when riding this weekend, make sure you don't make any dumb moves or bad decisions, whatever your speed.

I feel better now, thanks.
 

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trialsman said:
It's kind of like saying, "Guns Kill". No, people using guns kill. No gun has ever killed anyone.
It's actually the bullets and the concomitant loss of essential bodily fluids...

Think bumper cars, Paul. Nobody dies in bumper cars.
 

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I believe that speed does kill. Take for instance if you are sitting at a stop sign and the cross traffic speed limit is only 55. The car/motorcycle you see coming at you from the right is supposed to be only traveling at 55 MPH, but instead the driver (may be me) is really traveling at say 95-100 MPH. Now the distance you judge him for 55 MPH will safely get you through the intersection. But the speed the other driver is traveing will not work. Granted his choice to speed was wrong, but the speed he is traveling is what can get you killed.

Higher speeds cut down on effective stopping distances and also reaction times have to be quicker. Yes in fact speed does kill. JMHO.....

Speed is just the final result of bad judgement, be it you or me....
 

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Larry the cable guy put it best: "If guns kill people then I can blame my pencil for mispelled words."
 

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Larry the cable guy put it best: "If guns kill people then I can blame my pencil for mispelled words."
 

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I speed as much or more than most. I agree speed in its self does not kill, I believe it contributes to the already dangerous sport of bike riding.

The way it contributes is less time to make the right decision. Take flying for instance. When first learning you fly a very slow plane usually around 90 knots (about 95mph). At first this seems pretty fast and the time you have to make the right decisions seems little. The more you fly and move to faster planes the shorter time you have to make the right decisions, its called staying ahead of the plane - planning your next moves before you are there. I think this is what gets, usually the young, folks in trouble on the super fast bikes. They are ridding and thinking in the now and need to thinking about their next 3 or 4 moves ahead. I once talked to a flight instructor that said he loved to get students that were bike riders because they have already started to think in these terms, now he just has to increase the time and distance they think in.

I really don't think speeding increases my chances for an accident. Most times I think it decreases the chances by me getting out of the line of fire so to speak. I have one ridding friend who is the exact opposite; he usually won't even do the set speed limit. When in a crowd of vehicles he'll stay put and let them maneuver around him. Makes me nervous as H**L. Will I push the limit - yes, but only my limit and when I feel it's safe to do so. JMHO

Dave
 

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While bad decisions and judgement kills, SPEED does kill as well. Yesterday we had a tractor trailer take an offramp too fast and his rig rolled over, killing him. In this case, Speed killed him. Course so did his bad decision and judgement in not slowing down for the ramp.
Every situation is different, but to say speed doesnt kill is absolutely false.
 

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twodogs1800 said:
While bad decisions and judgement kills, SPEED does kill as well. Yesterday we had a tractor trailer take an offramp too fast and his rig rolled over, killing him. In this case, Speed killed him. Course so did his bad decision and judgement in not slowing down for the ramp.
Every situation is different, but to say speed doesnt kill is absolutely false.
I can run all day at 130mph and not die, so in that since, speed does not kill. Now if I make a bad decision and run into something I will probably die. So IMHO speed, just as a gun, does not kill it’s a tool you can use to accomplish your goal, or if the wrong decision is made, kill you. But still it's you making the decision to pull the trigger or twist on the throttle.

Dave
 

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trialsman said:
I keep hearing and reading that "Speed Kills"....
As a former accident investigator, I will say that "speed" is always listed as a contributing factor in any motor vehicle accident that involves one or more vehicles actually moving. But to the untrained, one would normal associate a high rate of speed with the phrase “speed” and that can lead to incorrect conclusions.

On the other hand, a lack of speed can also be a contributing factor. To prove this theory, one only needs to observe a group of vehicles traveling in the same direction at approximately the same speed and then introduce a slower moving vehicle to the mix. ALL faster moving vehicles must alter either course or speed to accommodate the slower moving vehicle. It is the compensation by the other vehicles that will significantly increase the likelihood of an accident. In this scenario, the lack of speed may become a contributing factor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
5Ross said:
I believe that speed does kill. Take for instance if you are sitting at a stop sign and the cross traffic speed limit is only 55. The car/motorcycle you see coming at you from the right is supposed to be only traveling at 55 MPH, but instead the driver (may be me) is really traveling at say 95-100 MPH. Now the distance you judge him for 55 MPH will safely get you through the intersection. But the speed the other driver is traveing will not work. Granted his choice to speed was wrong, but the speed he is traveling is what can get you killed.

Higher speeds cut down on effective stopping distances and also reaction times have to be quicker. Yes in fact speed does kill. JMHO.....

Speed is just the final result of bad judgement, be it you or me....

5Ross,
You proved my point, it wasn't the speed but your lack of ability to judge the speed of the oncoming car...
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
twodogs1800 said:
While bad decisions and judgement kills, SPEED does kill as well. Yesterday we had a tractor trailer take an offramp too fast and his rig rolled over, killing him. In this case, Speed killed him. Course so did his bad decision and judgement in not slowing down for the ramp.
Every situation is different, but to say speed doesnt kill is absolutely false.
2dogs1800,
You too proved my point, it wasn't the speed but the trucker who decide to go too fast
 

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trialsman said:
5Ross said:
I believe that speed does kill. Take for instance if you are sitting at a stop sign and the cross traffic speed limit is only 55. The car/motorcycle you see coming at you from the right is supposed to be only traveling at 55 MPH, but instead the driver (may be me) is really traveling at say 95-100 MPH. Now the distance you judge him for 55 MPH will safely get you through the intersection. But the speed the other driver is traveing will not work. Granted his choice to speed was wrong, but the speed he is traveling is what can get you killed.

Higher speeds cut down on effective stopping distances and also reaction times have to be quicker. Yes in fact speed does kill. JMHO.....

Speed is just the final result of bad judgement, be it you or me....



5Ross,
You proved my point, it wasn't the speed but your lack of ability to judge the speed of the oncoming car...
But by knowing the existing speed limit the driver at the stop sign could not have a clue as to the faster speed. The person at the stop sign stopped, looked knowing the speed limit and did not have a clue the other vehicle was maybe going 85-90 MPH. For that reason the execssive speed could have killed someone. All Hypothetical.. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?? Is the glass half full or is the glass half empty??
 

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Speed is just a measurement of distance and time. We don't say time kills or distance kills so how can distance/time or speed kills? :?

I believe Trialsman point is it is the poor judgement that put us/him/them in that position.

As the bumper sticker on my Firebird used to say "Speed doesn't kill... It is the sudden stopping"
 

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Speed doesn't kill.......rapid deceleration does.


Bob E.
 

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Arn Butt Bill wrote:
It's actually the bullets and the concomitant loss of essential bodily fluids...
That there's a big word and I had to look it up!! I bet you read Readers Digest dontcha? :) :) :)
 

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I'm having one of those days where someone tells a joke and everyone gets it but me. Somehow I'm missing the punchline here.

Speed and reaction time have an inverse relationship. In other words, the faster you are traveling the less time you are affording yourself to react to an incident in front of you. Also, the chances of survival in a crash have an inverse relationship to speed.

I guess it might make some folks happier if the saying was "Increased Speeds Reduces Chances Of Survival In A Crash" but that would take up an awful lot of room on a bumper sticker, and if you were traveling real fast you wouldn't have time to read it.

"High Speed Kills More Often Than Low Speed"... naw, that one doesn't pass the insurance marketing folks.

But hey, maybe its a PMS thing? Speed Kills never bothered me, nor does crap about guns.

(btw ArnButt, more often than not it is the impact of the bullet and its shock on the cardio sytem that kills the victim. Bleeding, from a bullet wound rarely causes the death. Thats why bigger bullets kill 'em deader.)
 

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Speed Kills Ride a Harley!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
To further clarify, yes, speed does cause more damage, changes perception, etc. But, my point is that we shouldn't blame speed but rather the person who is speeding or the person who makes other bad decisons.

5Ross, yes, the speed limit was a supposed known fact in your hypothetical, but I would hope that I could tell the difference between a car approaching the intersection at 45 and one doing 95.

By the way, I'm guilty of making a lot of bad decisions. Luckily the good ones have outnumbered the bad.
 

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I think GDaddy's bumper sticker is closer to the real issue. Its not speed that kills, but the differences in speed, whether between two moving objects or one moving and the other not. If everyone were traveling at precisely the same speed, then it would make little difference about safety, assuming the speed was sensible for the conditions, no other vehicle had a mechanical malfunction and a myriad of other issues were equal.

But, like the bumper sticker said - its the stop that kills. It seems there are many more factors in accidents than just speed, or just paying attention, or ... you name it. Those of you who are accident investigators could probably write a book here, but doesn't it all come down to the ability of the operator to keep him/herself and the vehicle he/she operates in a safe condition, including all of the safety information we have on this and other boards, and all other precautions we've been warned about?

I know some of you get tired of hearing about accidents and would rather just forget they happen, but they do. I learn something each time I read about one - and hopefully, that will keep me going a little longer.

Mesquite Bob
 
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