Steel Braided Hydraulic Line
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·I'm in the process of doing this now, see the post called Rear spring size on this board. I had not planned on replacing that line, but have come to the conclusion that I may as well while I'm in there. I'm interested to see what others say.
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The rational behind using the reinforced line is that the line may expand in diameter over time due to the hydraulic pressure and thus impart a small increase in fluid capacity and then a sight reduction of effective preload range. Maybe; maybe not. The fellow that came up with that hypothesis is far more wise than I in these matters. I did the Fred Harmon modification to my rear pre-load several years ago and with care was able to get the pre-load to begin right off of zero. It has remained that way since regardless the OE line. So, the line swap may be more of a "feel good" or do it because you can affair. I think Traxxion's other rear shock accessory is potentially more valuabe and cost effective; the "shock sock" really does seem to have face value.
prs
prs
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5,974 Posts
Yes, I replaced the hydraulic line for the adjuster.
Once Stu O. said it was a good idea and Fred concurred, I decided to spend the extra money. Since I was going to have the rear suspension apart, I wanted to get all the benefit possible and I didn't want to take it apart again later.
Once Stu O. said it was a good idea and Fred concurred, I decided to spend the extra money. Since I was going to have the rear suspension apart, I wanted to get all the benefit possible and I didn't want to take it apart again later.
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22,506 Posts
I'm still a bit on the fence about this, though I do now have one installed on the new bike and am testing it out.
I'm still not 100% convinced that the hose swells enough under load to affect the range of the pre-load adjuster.
However, I can see that over many miles and bumps the hose will be subjected to repeated pressure loadings, and will begin to actually act a bit like a suspension component of it's own. Since when it swells from pressure and expands it will reduce the pre-load pressure on the spring some, and then when it recovers, it will add pre-load. Is it enough to have an impact? I honestly don't know.
It certainly can't hurt to upgrade the hose. It will definitely outlast the OEM hose.
One other note. The Traxxion hose is not nearly as flexible, so some care has to be taken in mounting it and getting it "clocked" in the right position on both the pre-load adapter and the electric actuator so the shock will install in the frame properly and the hose won't be twisted when it is mounted on the bike.
I'm still not 100% convinced that the hose swells enough under load to affect the range of the pre-load adjuster.
However, I can see that over many miles and bumps the hose will be subjected to repeated pressure loadings, and will begin to actually act a bit like a suspension component of it's own. Since when it swells from pressure and expands it will reduce the pre-load pressure on the spring some, and then when it recovers, it will add pre-load. Is it enough to have an impact? I honestly don't know.
It certainly can't hurt to upgrade the hose. It will definitely outlast the OEM hose.
One other note. The Traxxion hose is not nearly as flexible, so some care has to be taken in mounting it and getting it "clocked" in the right position on both the pre-load adapter and the electric actuator so the shock will install in the frame properly and the hose won't be twisted when it is mounted on the bike.
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11,396 Posts
Fred hits it right on the head..
I too can't see this happening knowing what I know about hydraulic hose construction,But as in everything else in life,I can't say that it hasn't happened or could happen in the future..After all we never thought we'd see frame cracks,But we do don't we.
I put a SS line on my bike just to test it out.
I found a local shop that had SS braided lines made up on the counter..
They have 10mm banjo bolts,But the 1800 line is a 8mm banjo bolt..
I'm using mine with "Stat-O-Seal" washers (They center the Banjo fitting on the banjo bolt) and new copper washers that allow me to use the line on my bike for a lot less than what Traxxion sells theirs for..
I know this works because I have already tested this line for over 10,000 miles and I have no issues at all.
I have 6 extra lines with washers for sale if anyone is interested ($30)
delivered)
Here is what you get..
2 Stat-O-Seals & 4 Copper Washers.
2-Stat-O-Seals & 4 Copper washers.
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1,543 Posts
I did not. It's been about a year and no degradation of performance.
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2,586 Posts
This is a "long haul" piece-of-mind upgrade. I don't recommend that anyone take their bike in to have this line installed just for the sake of having it. The labor is very expensive to get the shock in and out.
We recommend this upgrade to people who are having their shock replaced/upgraded, and have a relatively new bike they intend to keep for several years. While the shock is out of the bike, we always disassemble and clean the hydraulic adjuster and bleed it so that it works as it should have (but never did) from the factory. So the only additional cost is just the line, which is $49.95.
I would never, ever, ever, EVER, recommend using a hydraulic line on any hydraulic system with the wrong size banjo fittings on it! I would DEFINITELY NEVER do that with a hydraulic line that was directly positioned over my rear tire!!! It wouldn't matter if you could get it for free, never mind saving a mere $20. My life and the life of my passenger is worth more than $20 to me. My adivce is, if you can't afford $49.95 for a line designed to fit the exact application, then just leave the stock Honda one on the bike.
We recommend this upgrade to people who are having their shock replaced/upgraded, and have a relatively new bike they intend to keep for several years. While the shock is out of the bike, we always disassemble and clean the hydraulic adjuster and bleed it so that it works as it should have (but never did) from the factory. So the only additional cost is just the line, which is $49.95.
I would never, ever, ever, EVER, recommend using a hydraulic line on any hydraulic system with the wrong size banjo fittings on it! I would DEFINITELY NEVER do that with a hydraulic line that was directly positioned over my rear tire!!! It wouldn't matter if you could get it for free, never mind saving a mere $20. My life and the life of my passenger is worth more than $20 to me. My adivce is, if you can't afford $49.95 for a line designed to fit the exact application, then just leave the stock Honda one on the bike.
I bought a progressive spring and bought a new shock, adjuster and line from a trike conversion for my 02 about 2 years ago and installed it. Before that my pre-load was kicking in at almost 11!!!
When I installed the new shock, spring and adjuster, it was preloading right at 0. Within 6 months it was at 5 and then went to 7 within a few more months. I went in and refilled the adjuster and bled the line and adjuster and got it back to 0. It has stayed right there since then, which was about 6 or 7 months ago. After that I bought one of the Traxxion lines, but have not installed it yet. I was waiting for some degradation, but that hasn't occurred yet.
Based on my experience, I can't think of what else would cause this other than hose swelling/expansion. There have been no signs of leaking, anywhere. Just my 2 cents worth.
When I installed the new shock, spring and adjuster, it was preloading right at 0. Within 6 months it was at 5 and then went to 7 within a few more months. I went in and refilled the adjuster and bled the line and adjuster and got it back to 0. It has stayed right there since then, which was about 6 or 7 months ago. After that I bought one of the Traxxion lines, but have not installed it yet. I was waiting for some degradation, but that hasn't occurred yet.
Based on my experience, I can't think of what else would cause this other than hose swelling/expansion. There have been no signs of leaking, anywhere. Just my 2 cents worth.
I would never, ever, ever, EVER, recommend using a hydraulic line on any hydraulic system with the wrong size banjo fittings on it! I would DEFINITELY NEVER do that with a hydraulic line that was directly positioned over my rear tire!!! It wouldn't matter if you could get it for free, never mind saving a mere $20. My life and the life of my passenger is worth more than $20 to me. My adivce is, if you can't afford $49.95 for a line designed to fit the exact application, then just leave the stock Honda one on the bike.[/quote]
I couldn't agree more with this statement. While it's easy to say, "I did it and it worked" it's not worth the risk. A sudden loss of pressure while riding could prove deadly.
I couldn't agree more with this statement. While it's easy to say, "I did it and it worked" it's not worth the risk. A sudden loss of pressure while riding could prove deadly.
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11,396 Posts
Excuse me Mr.ghump..(This is not a flame BTW)
But you aren't taking my word for a thing.
You see the guy who built this line has more than 30 plus years building all types of Hydraulic hoses for heavy equipment as well as Brake lines for street/Race bikes/cars as well.
He is the one who suggested I go the route I did,and the man wasn't wrong..
BTW:
I brought in my old stock hose because he questioned why I wanted to go to a SS-Line?
I told him of what Stu Oltman had seen and wrote in his article,and he laughed..
He said it can happen but from abuse by bending the hose repeatedly in the same area,He then asked."Do you want to buy a bridge I have out back too??"
He then asked if this guy was selling these hoses?? I told him no-But another guy who builds shocks/suspension is either making them or having them made up and selling them...He then said "Does that answer your question????"
Personally I'd rather take the advice of a guy who has nothing to gain in my buying a hose or not.(He tried talking me out of buying them)Than one who is selling them!! But hey that's just me..
I asked him if he had a knife to cut this trike take off hose in half?
He asked why""
I told him I wanted his opinion of its internal construction..
He said sure,it's your hose your cutting up!
So we cut the hose in half and he "Laughed again" after looking at it...
He said I'll sell you anything in my shop,But you aren't going to have a problem with this hose for what it's being used for,I'll tell you that!!
He said a few other colorful things that I won't get into...
Another thing:
I remember Fred Harmon having to completely rebuild his actuator because fluid got past his actuator seal..
When Stu Posted this info on this board,I asked him if by putting in a SS-line,would then the next weakest link let the fluid get past it (The Seal)
He said that the seal is made superior than a normal seal is and shouldn't allow fluid past it!!
So why did I buy a few SS-lines from him anyway then you may wonder??
Well I'm a curious guy and wanted to try one out for myself and see if what happened to your pre-sets happens to mine as time goes by???
Who knows??,But in the back of my mind I still remember what Fred went through,and will see if this SS-line will cause any issue or stay the way it has or not??
I and four of my friends are using this same line and not one guy has had any issues to date!
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2,586 Posts
Rocky,
So... the smartest, most experienced, expert person you could find on the topic of hydraulic hoses told you there was absolutely no reason to replace the hydraulic hose on your Wing...
and you did so anyway?
With one that is jury rigged?
Why would you do that if it wasn't necessary?
Why would you do that if it was a joke?
Why would you do that if it was a fallacy?
I now understand what you have been trying to say every single time you post in response to any comment I have ever made on this forum, or reply to satisfied users of our products.
You just can't stand to see my company selling high quality products to happy Goldwingers... and I am fine with that. Because you don't, can't, and won't affect our company... in any way... ever.
If anyone else in the world had this product for sale, it would be one you would put on your bike an endorse.
Any product I have for sale, is one you will certainly find repugnant and lacking in purpose, deceptive in nature, and definitely able to be duplicated for 10% of the cost using over the counter objects from Home Depot and Walmart.
Why don't you just come right out and say that?
I have acknowledged that a wing will not be unsafe to use with the stock line as delivered from Honda. I have acknowledged that the rider won't really be able to "feel" a difference. To replace the stock line with a purpose built stainless steel line while the shock is out costs $50 extra and is UNQUESTIONABLY perfect. To leave the stock rubber one is free, and leaves DOUBT.
Traxxion Dynamics doesn't sell doubt.
Homemade, cheap ass, hardware store, rigged up, shadetree garbage like what is on your bike leaves 100% doubt.
Some wingers LIKE perfect, no matter what it costs. Some wingers like to slowly turn their $20,000 bike into a $10,000 pile of homemade garbage with homemade homebrewed junk. To each his own.
You go ahead and save that $20 and gloat about how smart you are. Traxxion Dynamics would never, ever install a piece of rigged up junk like you have on one of our customer's bikes. If they demanded it, we would refuse to install it and send them on their way. We just don't get involved in penny pinching garbage like that.
Oh, and by the way.... it seems YOU are in the business of SELLING hydraulic lines on this forum...
So I guess your opinion is crap too, isn't it? YOU are now a snakeoil selling charlatan just like me... how does that feel?
And before you go any further sitting behind your keyboard taking cheap shots and laughing at a truly admired and respected EXPERT like Stu Oltman, why don't you present YOUR professional credentials, decades of published technical articles, and show us your awards for your dedication to Gold Wingers and the greater motorcycle community in general?
So... the smartest, most experienced, expert person you could find on the topic of hydraulic hoses told you there was absolutely no reason to replace the hydraulic hose on your Wing...
and you did so anyway?
With one that is jury rigged?
Why would you do that if it wasn't necessary?
Why would you do that if it was a joke?
Why would you do that if it was a fallacy?
I now understand what you have been trying to say every single time you post in response to any comment I have ever made on this forum, or reply to satisfied users of our products.
You just can't stand to see my company selling high quality products to happy Goldwingers... and I am fine with that. Because you don't, can't, and won't affect our company... in any way... ever.
If anyone else in the world had this product for sale, it would be one you would put on your bike an endorse.
Any product I have for sale, is one you will certainly find repugnant and lacking in purpose, deceptive in nature, and definitely able to be duplicated for 10% of the cost using over the counter objects from Home Depot and Walmart.
Why don't you just come right out and say that?
I have acknowledged that a wing will not be unsafe to use with the stock line as delivered from Honda. I have acknowledged that the rider won't really be able to "feel" a difference. To replace the stock line with a purpose built stainless steel line while the shock is out costs $50 extra and is UNQUESTIONABLY perfect. To leave the stock rubber one is free, and leaves DOUBT.
Traxxion Dynamics doesn't sell doubt.
Homemade, cheap ass, hardware store, rigged up, shadetree garbage like what is on your bike leaves 100% doubt.
Some wingers LIKE perfect, no matter what it costs. Some wingers like to slowly turn their $20,000 bike into a $10,000 pile of homemade garbage with homemade homebrewed junk. To each his own.
You go ahead and save that $20 and gloat about how smart you are. Traxxion Dynamics would never, ever install a piece of rigged up junk like you have on one of our customer's bikes. If they demanded it, we would refuse to install it and send them on their way. We just don't get involved in penny pinching garbage like that.
Oh, and by the way.... it seems YOU are in the business of SELLING hydraulic lines on this forum...
So I guess your opinion is crap too, isn't it? YOU are now a snakeoil selling charlatan just like me... how does that feel?
And before you go any further sitting behind your keyboard taking cheap shots and laughing at a truly admired and respected EXPERT like Stu Oltman, why don't you present YOUR professional credentials, decades of published technical articles, and show us your awards for your dedication to Gold Wingers and the greater motorcycle community in general?
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11,396 Posts
Hi Max Buddy.I see you lost sight of your medication again...he he he
You got me wondering what size freaking helmet does it take to get that insane ego size head of yours into?? xxxxxxxxxxxlg???
You know Max,you'd sell more products if you'd stop ranting like a lunatic on the Internet..
One of your employee's "Dan" has a lot of class and stays on topic,you should let him speak for Traxxion,He comes across as very intelligent and very credible..
I represent no one but my own opinion,So don't flatter yourself in thinking I am out to undermine you...You do that all by yourself!
Enjoy the bottle you got going buddy...c-ya! :thumbup:
You got me wondering what size freaking helmet does it take to get that insane ego size head of yours into?? xxxxxxxxxxxlg???
You know Max,you'd sell more products if you'd stop ranting like a lunatic on the Internet..
One of your employee's "Dan" has a lot of class and stays on topic,you should let him speak for Traxxion,He comes across as very intelligent and very credible..
I represent no one but my own opinion,So don't flatter yourself in thinking I am out to undermine you...You do that all by yourself!
Enjoy the bottle you got going buddy...c-ya! :thumbup:
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2,692 Posts
While I don't care for Max's tone for a response, Rocky you sure aren't Mr Innocent either............here or in other posts.
Thanks guys for ruining a perfectly good thread..........
btw - I have the Traxxion Braided hydraulic hose as I had the full setup installed prior to delivery of my 2009. Will it help in the future? Time will tell...........as mentioned if your replacing the shock anyway you might as well have the braided hose installed at the same time.
Thanks guys for ruining a perfectly good thread..........
btw - I have the Traxxion Braided hydraulic hose as I had the full setup installed prior to delivery of my 2009. Will it help in the future? Time will tell...........as mentioned if your replacing the shock anyway you might as well have the braided hose installed at the same time.
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opcorn:
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Zero preload in my case, thanks to Traxxion, but I still need it when hauling luggage and/or two-up.
I could be wrong, but it seems like, once you use ANY preload, the hose is under roughly the same stress, no matter where it is in it's travel. The reason I say this is that the spring is going to put force into the preload adjuster based on the weight of the bike, its riders and luggage, and not where the preload is set to, unless the preload is set to zero or wherever the motor stops laboring(true zero.)
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Is there any tricks to bleeding the air out of the steel line?
Thanks
Greg
Thanks
Greg
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