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I have gotten myself to a place where I have little confidence in slow speed maneuvers especially two up. My lack of confidence has also effected my wifes (rider) confidence in me.

I can tight figure eight and circle right and left solo in a parking lot but put a rider on and place curbs or guard rails in the equation and I hesitate.

I rode my Valkyrie 85K with no hesitations. The steeper rake and the noddle forks at low speed on the GL is like dancing with a corpse for me, a lot of work and no fun.

I sat in the parking lot yesterday and wiggled the bars and was amazed how much flex there is between contact patch and bar input. The tire continues to osolate well after input is discontinued. The bike is fine mechanically. Try this test yourself.

Add the throttle response of the shaft drive in 1st at these speeds and I begin to sweat just writing this!

I've got an air bag so I'll have to modify the fork tubes to accept a brace. This is my only real complaint with the wing but it could end our relationship at 10K. Thoughts please. :shrug:
 

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I too get concerned with two up riding in slow maneuvers. But then, I ain't as young as I once was. I warn my passenger more than once, no wiggle at slow speeds, none.....So, you're not alone in this boat.
 

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Put some weight on the back seat and practice. That way you do not have the pressure of dropping your wife while she is on the back. If you look up DJ fire he has some instructions that may help you. The only difference is you will have added weight and can increase the weight as your comfort level grows.
 

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Okay ---- click on the bottom link in my sig.

Easy to fix your problem(s). You're over thinking things a bit.

Start reading with the first post on page 2 of the thread I am sending you to.

Ignore all you know to be true and just trust the info I have posted. There are many members here who can attest to just having faith in what I have posted and doing it.

Feel free to PM me with any questions.



BTW - GET OUT OF 1st GEAR! (You can get back into it once your skills are up to snuff on the wing.)
 

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If you haven't already, consider GWRRA's co-rider course. Also MSF's ERC course 2 up. An informed co-rider can actually help you make your low speed maneuvers.

My wife and I considered both time and money well spent.
 

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Don't feel bad I'm right there with you. Only had my wing a few months but just the thought of doing a U turn on a busy street give me a knot in my stomach. At the urging of my nervous passenger I bought the Ride Like a Pro video and practice in a school parking lot on the weekends. It's helping (slowly) but the one thing I learned is to do slow speed maneuvers in 2nd gear. Throttle response/friction zone are much more controllable.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #10
and now for the rest of the story...............

Okay ---- click on the bottom link in my sig.

Easy to fix your problem(s). You're over thinking things a bit.

Start reading with the first post on page 2 of the thread I am sending you to.

Ignore all you know to be true and just trust the info I have posted. There are many members here who can attest to just having faith in what I have posted and doing it.

Feel free to PM me with any questions.



BTW - GET OUT OF 1st GEAR! (You can get back into it once your skills are up to snuff on the wing.)

I'm riding without a right hand. Throttle and front brake are on the left side. Clutch on the right with limited use to stop and go or slipping with my forearm in a limited arc.

I decided not to take this off line in the event someone else can benefit.

I've ridden and competed off road in MX and Enduros back in the day (80's). I presently MTB at an expert level. Point being, I don't generally suffer brain freeze like this.

I'll get back to the parking lot ASAP and get comfortable with 3rd gear, no brake and no clutch and report back! Thank you for responding!
 

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Hand? You don't need no stinking hand and you definitely don't sound like the type to let let a minor body mod get in the way!

Me wonders if some of the wizard of Zen shop skills that hang around here could rig up a fairing/tank clutch operated by your knee or some other wizard Wing mod invention?

DJ needs some competition anyway and you sound like the perfect candidate to go all grasshopper leap frogs wizard on him.

Just saying, I think you could be the man!
 

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Just two points:

1. People use the term "look" through the turn and then only use their eyes. When I was MSF instructor I started telling people to "point your nose" where you want to go. The eyes have to follow.

2. When riding two-up, the co-rider must also participate correctly to make your job easier and safer. Instruct the co-rider to "point your nose" in the direction I'm turning and sit still. Do not try to lean, just point your nose where we're going.

You'll be amazed how much difference it makes when the co-rider understands and participates fully in your riding.

Have fun - ride safe.
 

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Keep practicing, you'll get it. Just don't give up and don't stop practicing. What I have noticed is that when I begin to get feedback from the front tire (a slight wobble) it's caused by too much back brake. I let off the brake a little bit and pull in the clutch a little more but that would be difficult to do for you. You may want to look int JD's technique. I couldn't get comfortable doing it in 3rd gear without back brake, I have been doing it the other way for so long now it just feels natural to drop down to first, slip the clutch add back brake and throw the bike over into a steep tight turn.
 

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Mtb

MTB expert. You mean like one of these guys JED?

Yup, you definitely the man to take it to grasshopper leap frogs master to DJ Fire.

You might even plant some more twisted ideas into his safety first consciousness of the possible.

 

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The comment on the co-rider "helping" *can* actually increase the difficulty. My experience is to instruct the co-rider to sit back, relax, and not do a durn thing. Treat them as dead weight. The techniques do not change. I do not care if you have never been on a bike or have 3 million miles, as long as you relax and don't move, I can do scraping parts turns with ya on the back AND pulling a trailer.
 

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... When I was MSF instructor I told people to "point your nose" where you want to go...
YUP! Turning my entire head and shoulders in the direction of the turn and pointing my nose where I want to go (not just my eyes) is what finally got me capable of slow speed tight turns.

The farther I crank my head and shoulders around to look where I want to go the sharper I can turn now. I had all the other stuff right except this, and that fixed it for me.

Try it. It makes a big difference.

Oh, yeah, also keep your head and eyes level to the ground when you lean. Makes it much easier to steer the right line through the turn.

***
 

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DJ that is why I put saftey first in italics when I used it.

I think JED and you could be very useful to each other and perhaps his unique situation might bring new horizons to your teachings as well.

Plus I like the grasshopper leap frog mentality, that's what life is all about.

Damn man a sidesaddle wheelie. HUMM, 2nd gear clutch up at redline RPM's?

Do tell you twisted wizard. Can you balance point it with the powerband or is a mini WHEeeee sort of deal.

I am now officially in the market for another Wing a black practice mule.

I will be traveling to MN and CA let next week if anyone has one PM me.
 

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DJ that is why I put saftey first in italics when I used it.
Sorry --- been taking some heat over the CT thing and the recent anti CT statements made by International Director of Rider Education for GWRRA.
Do tell you twisted wizard. Can you balance point it with the powerband or is a mini WHEeeee sort of deal.
Yes, it can be done.... just have to remove the saddlebags and some of the exhaust and the subframe. No big deal. he he he he
 

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I have gotten myself to a place where I have little confidence in slow speed maneuvers especially two up. My lack of confidence has also effected my wifes (rider) confidence in me.

I can tight figure eight and circle right and left solo in a parking lot but put a rider on and place curbs or guard rails in the equation and I hesitate.

I rode my Valkyrie 85K with no hesitations. The steeper rake and the noddle forks at low speed on the GL is like dancing with a corpse for me, a lot of work and no fun.

I sat in the parking lot yesterday and wiggled the bars and was amazed how much flex there is between contact patch and bar input. The tire continues to osolate well after input is discontinued. The bike is fine mechanically. Try this test yourself.

Add the throttle response of the shaft drive in 1st at these speeds and I begin to sweat just writing this!

I've got an air bag so I'll have to modify the fork tubes to accept a brace. This is my only real complaint with the wing but it could end our relationship at 10K. Thoughts please. :shrug:
As I understand it, your problem is not so much with technique as it is with the flexibility of the fork. Here are a couple of possible solutions.

Superbrace makes an air bag model. I'm suspicious of the one piece design, but, if your bike was made precisely to spec, it should work fine. Supposedly they guarantee it not to cause stiction. Be sure and pull/push the lower fork with the wheel loosely installed to align the fork carefully, and check for stiction.

http://www.superbrace.com/proddetail.asp?prod=2319

Traxxion has the high dollar solution, a complete set of stout cast aluminum triple clamps. $750.

http://www.traxxion.com/traxx-ritebillettripleclampset.aspx
 

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My wife is a GREAT passenger. When I'm doing slow speed stuff, she holds onto my hips and only moves her head to see where we're going. The less she moves the better I like it. At least when in the parking lot. :thumbup:

1) My suggestion is to practice your turns with your honey on the back. At the same time, mentally forget she's back there. Pretend she's not there at all and just ride the bike like you normally would. The weight of the bike, or the extra weight of a passenger, is meaningless--as long as you keep power to the rear wheel and look where you want to go. The ENGINE is strong enough to hold the bike up without you pushing or gripping the bars to try and MAKE her stay up. (Perfectly natural response, but not helpful).

2) When you practice, put some cone "guard rails" up. Your eyes will WANT to look at them. Part of the practice is to let your eyes sweep over the scary bits (so you'll know where they are), then turn your eyes, head, nose, shoulders, everything and find your exit. If your eyes stop on the outside edge, you'll move 2 feet toward it before you can tear them away. :eek:4: The MotorMan is right on that one!

3) Use second gear and let the engine idle. Control your speed mostly with the rear brake. With throttle on the left and the brake on the right, you might think "left go, right slow." Or not, you've probably got that all worked out already. Using 2nd will smooth out the throttle a LOT and require much less of it. This was DJ Fire's suggestion and it works great for me. You'll mostly be using the rear brake, head and eyes.

The nice thing about slow speed maneuvers is that even if you fall over, you usually don't get hurt. Most of the time, you'll fall over because the bike stopped moving and HAD to fall down. Keep some forward momentum by using idle, 2nd gear and letting OFF the rear brake. Have fun with it.

:excited:
 
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