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Discussion Starter #1
There was a post started the other day regarding "what's the best hitch".

I have a sub frame Kuryakan on my '10 and I do pull with it and intend to pull even heavier loads in the future. Thus far I have had confidence in it.

Anyway, a gentleman replied to that post and advised no way pull anything with a subframe mounted hitch.

I guess when I put my subframe hitch on that also uses the crash bars, my logic was everything "seems" strong enough to me and as a bonus it attaches to points that were designed to take a load already and distribute that to the main frame without messing up the frame. The entire frame crack history in the back of my mind.

Stayed away from direct frame mount for just that reason.

My logic or lack of being the the shin bone is connected to the thigh bone.

Having some second thoughts..

Should I be?
 

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There was a post started the other day regarding "what's the best hitch".

I have a sub frame Kuryakan on my '10 and I do pull with it and intend to pull even heavier loads in the future. Thus far I have had confidence in it.

Anyway, a gentleman replied to that post and advised no way pull anything with a subframe mounted hitch.

I guess when I put my subframe hitch on that also uses the crash bars, my logic was everything "seems" strong enough to me and as a bonus it attaches to points that were designed to take a load already and distribute that to the main frame without messing up the frame. The entire frame crack history in the back of my mind.

Stayed away from direct frame mount for just that reason.

My logic or lack of being the the shin bone is connected to the thigh bone.

Having some second thoughts..

Should I be?
Yes. Search for posts by Zackybilly1 and Tom Finch.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Well it is nap time up here. Did a few dozen pages and an hour or so of reading but not finding exactly this topic. Learned a lot more about a few different trailers and hitchs that I was only modestly informed about but only bits and nothing to put the hammer on the nail of frame vs. subframe quandary.

I had a hunch about zachybillt1s' shop before and now I am flat out envious after seeing those hitch balls he must have made on his lathe. Very cool!

Got to get me a lathe it would be very cool to make your own metal parts, custom fasteners etc.

Will do some more digging around this weekend via the frame vs subframe mount dilema and see if there is already a thread that directly addresses that.

Thanks for the directional heads up eidolon

We will see if I find anything more to the point.
 

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Section168, I have read several of the posts of sub-frame mount versus frame mount.

In investigating this further I think it appropriate to ask: Has anyone ever had a frame break issue attributed to a sub-frame mounted hitch? To my knowledge, it has not been reported on this message board. Good luck.
 

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:popcorn::popcorn::eek:4:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Well did some more reading over breakfast. I searched:

frame. subframe. mount. hitch.


In various combinations but I mostly only turned up frame is "stronger" than subframe, a few subframe no worries I have had mine for years, and mostly all the direct frame folks saying the like their hitch.

What I am not as of yet finding is any any catastrophic frame mount or subframe mount failures (very cool). One failure in a direct frame mount hitch weld but that's it.

True lots of hitch articles from the "to swivel or not" to coupler issues but nothing directly on my quandary other than direct frame mounting is "stronger" than subframe and most of those are in passing to loyalty to this or that brand hitch.

Nothing that goes to the bone of the issue. I tend to agree a direct mount is stronger but am not seeing anything that says certain failure ahead with subframe mount.

Also nothing about the pro's and cons of of distributing the load via either method other than lots of pro thoughts for many and or more contact points
with some of the direct mounts.

I am less concerned than when I started but still partially questioning the subframe route.

should have studied physics and engineering as this would be a very cool on the ground upper level research project.

Got my ears and standing by for thoughts, slams, or other combinations of addressing the dilema at hand.
 

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<...>should have studied physics and engineering as this would be a very cool on the ground upper level research project.

Got my ears and standing by for thoughts, slams, or other combinations of addressing the dilema at hand.
Repeat your search; look for Tom Fitch as author & his posts on the subject.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Repeat your search; look for Tom Fitch as author & his posts on the subject.
Yes he has come up often in my reading thus far. He definitely has lots of info on suspension set ups for the tongue/ frame and wheels, and does indeed adress the hitch attachment issue but not so much other than his preference.

Have not as yet seen him say absolute no go with subframe.

He is very informative. Might find thread yet where he just goes after the pro con of just the hitch attachment to the bike

He has many posts as you know. He definitely sounds like a cool guy to meet.
 

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Yes he has come up often in my reading thus far. He definitely has lots of info on suspension set ups for the tongue/ frame and wheels, and does indeed adress the hitch attachment issue but not so much other than his preference.

Have not as yet seen him say absolute no go with subframe.

He is very informative. Might find thread yet where he just goes after the pro con of just the hitch attachment to the bike

He has many posts as you know. He definitely sounds like a cool guy to meet.

You are correct in that he is a cool guy to meet. I am proud to be able to count Tom as a friend, and I am looking forward to riding with him for a week in Utah and Colorado during the TTT in September.

Tom is adamant about using only a hitch that utilises the bike's main frame, versus those that attach to the subframe. It's not just his preference. Read enough and you'll find out why.

I believe there are only three hitch choices that mount just to the frame. They are Bushtec, Rivco, and for some reason I can't remember the other right now. I "believe" it is Hitch Doc, but if not someone will correct me.

Glen
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Yup it is hitch doc. They also make a hitch for my FLSTC.

I added in a few more terms in my search and am getting to it now in my reading.

There have indeed been some Subframe failures out there in trailer land.

Sure would like to see some photos and get all the particulars on those events.

Reading on.

Is an interesting quandary.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
www.texelent.com

Contact Tom directly
I could indeed do that MD11Pilot.

However, still a bit premature as I need to do a bit more reading and thinking and he has already spoke at some length on this in the archives and I have no intention of wasting his time.

Ultimately still in fishing and research mode here and soliciting input from as many riders as care to chime in that have run both set ups frame and subframe.

Currently I am in the camp of direct frame is most likely the best option but not convinced sub frame is certain tragedy, bad idea perhaps but not tragic. Another item hits the "box" another one makes the UPS list.

One day soon hopefully Honda will just come out and spill the beans as to what their team thinks is the ultimate attachment method if not just design in a factory hitch with specs.

There is no question in my mind that Honda keeps a casual eye to what is going on out there and if they were seriously freaking out or had major concernes they would find a way to make sure that knowledge got to the marketplace.

I am pretty convinced the want us to live to be 100 and keep buying Wings.
 

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www.texelent.com

Contact Tom directly

If you do contact Tom direct make sure you have plenty of room on your hard drive, he will send you a LOT of information. I read a reply from him some where that went something like "It has been said that if you ask me the time I will tell you how the watch was made" along those lines....:cool:

He definitely has an opinion and can back it up to.:bow:
 

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not likely

One day soon hopefully Honda will just come out and spill the beans as to what their team thinks is the ultimate attachment method if not just design in a factory hitch with specs.

There is no question in my mind that Honda keeps a casual eye to what is going on out there and if they were seriously freaking out or had major concernes they would find a way to make sure that knowledge got to the marketplace.

I am pretty convinced the want us to live to be 100 and keep buying Wings.
Yes to they want us to keep buying Wings. No to them coming out with any recommendations. Their lawyers would stop anything of the sort. Once they open the door to recommending a hitch and/or supporting the use of pulling a trailer, they have also opened the door to becoming the primary party in all sorts of negligent/contributory factor lawsuits. It's just not financially sound for them to do anything like that for the limited number of trailer pullers.

Regarding the original question, subframe or frame, attaching to the main frame members will always be the stronger method. Now will the subframe support what you are trying to do? - Going by the number of sub-frame mount hitches out there, and the lack of info regarding lawsuits or recalls, then the answer is more than likely yes. Stay within the manufacturers load recommendations and check your hardware occasionally and you should be fine.

Regarding the earlier concern of using a frame mount and having frame weld breaks - think about it. Even if you mount to a sub-frame mount, what does the sub-frame mount to and distribute the load to? Yes, the frame. If the frame is going to break, it will break. Mounting to something else won't matter, so don't let that be a concern.

This is like an oil thread - passionate responses on both sides.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Indeed ssncob. I agree Honda is not going to officially say a word. Damn them and every tort lawyer on the planet for that too.

But…….

I do think if anything was really, really, really of concern Honda would would find a way to make sure it got out there in the marketplace and on the radar screen of riders unofficially.

BTW

I wonder how many Wing rider do pull?

My guess is around 15%.
 

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Here's a good logic: If you owned a pickup truck and a mobil home trailer, would you pull it with the ball mounted on the bumper or to the pickup truck's main frame?

Here's another thing: If there were any catastrophic failures of wingers using their wing's sub frame to pull their trailer, do you think that they would actually announce it on this forum so they could get ridiculed in the process?

Here's another: If we are only allowed to carry 20 lbs in each saddlebag which are supported by the sub frame, how are we to allow the extra stress that pulling a trailer puts on the sub frame?

IMO attaching the hitch to the main frame is the only way to go and eliminate any possible failures and worries.
 

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advised no way pull anything with a subframe mounted hitch.

Stayed away from direct frame mount for just that reason.
Pardon my ignorance here, but I am about to buy a trailer hitch. Can you please point me at pics of the two different types?

I am a retired Mechanical Engineer and would like to check both types out before making a decision.

Thanks
 
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