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Well it looks like I will be replacing the Synthetic oil with reg GN4 ... Lucky I'm not 400 lbs, (only 160 lbs.)and very rarely carry a passenger, BUT I did convert my two wheel'er into a Roadsmith trike last season...AND I do haul a trailer w/ever I'm away on a trip ....Next week I'll be on a 5-7 hour one way trip to Northern Maine... I do not want any problems while away from home...

Thank you Gregg!

Ronnie
Where are you headed? Blow your horn on the way past.
 

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I don't know what to say. I'v used synthetic oils and additives in my 2001 with 230,000 ish miles, and though they may be burnt, they still work fine. My friction zone is controlled by my left hand, if it slips, my hand releases faster.
I've used Mobil 1 10-40 High Mileage car oil, NON-ENERGY CONSERVING OIL for many thousands of miles & STILL NO CLUTCH SLIPPING...
I will continue to use it, just changed the oil last week, headed to Va. on weds
 

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Most oil in the US that says synthetic is a refined class 3 oil, not a PAO (class 4) nor ester (class 5). In Europe Synthetic means class 4 or 5 and can not be class 3. As long as you aren’t using a car oil with friction modifiers, nor a class 4 or 5, you should be fine. Changing every 5k is easy and inexpensive. Why not just do it?
 

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I see no convincing evidence that the T6, 15W40 or 5W40 is doing any damage to my 2008 GW. However, just for grins, I may try the Honda brand at the next oil change. I will continue with oil changes every 8000 miles, no matter which oil, per the Owners Manual.
 

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Got 150K on my Concours with no issues using Rotella T6 at 6K intervals. And having taken a Motor Officer course, I have done of low speed maneuvers using the friction zone, etc. Clutch is still working fine. Have not taken it apart to see how it looks, but see no need to. No slippage. -- Wing has 73K on Castrol Actevo X-tra 4T Motorcycle oil. Which is a synthetic blend. Oh, wait, that can't be true....
 

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Where are you headed? Blow your horn on the way past.
Rockport Maine......

Leaving Sept. 25th.............. the same folks that started the Americade , in Lake George New York.......They are having a party for the first one hundred folks that sign up.. Well that "b" me, so off I go for a fun four days............:wink2::wink2:

Ronnie
 
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Discussion Starter #30
Greg - you sure have got me thinking about switching to non-synthetic Honda oil on my 12 GW with 20k miles.



I've always used Mobile 1 in my bikes - but the GW is new to me and you are very credible to me based on your GW experience.
Thank you. I tell most "I write Front Page news." Just like reading the front page of news paper ... some agree, some disagree, and some don't even care to read. All my stuff comes from personal experience, and I could care less if it is read or not.

From a personal perspective, I've shared first hand knowledge that some might truly appreciate, since the stuff I write about can greatly reduce their maintenance and repair costs. Basically, I've done my part in warning others.

From a business perspective, I hope it is all ignored ... cha ching, cha ching, cha ching $$$
 

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Synthetic oils are known to cause a wet-clutch to be in its friction zone longer.
Can you point to some study or expert opinion from a true industry leader.

Open for discussion, but thinking out loud here I am wondering if the only thing that hold the wet-clutch in its friction zone longer is your left hand. When the clutch is fully engaged, the springs that apply pressure holding the steels and frictions together needs to be plenty strong enough to over come any slipperiness of the oil, engine horsepower and all that. Our engines just don't slip when going full throttle because the clutch design is too weak to handle it. Its more that strong enough to handle it and all the other variables the engineers know about or our engines simply would not have the reliability they have. -- And when the clutch is fully disengaged its floating. No slipping here either. -- Seems like it would only be during the transition between disengaged and engaged that we will have any slipping. And we will control this with our left hand depending on the circumstances. Depending on if starting on a hill, trying to do really hard launch, just 1-up on flat ground we will account for slippage needed with our left hand. -- I would agree that the oil slipperiness could have some subtle change in the exact position of the clutch stack that provides X amount of slip. But it seems we could compensate for that with our left hand as we release the clutch.

The problem with the moly blends that are labeled energy conserving, etc are not because the oil is too slippery. Its because the moly gets on the friction discs and changes the friction co-efficient of them. Now the system is no longer capable of holding all of the engine power any longer. The friction co-efficient between the stackup of frictions and steels just got thrown out the window.
 

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For 6th gens, Honda has strong wording suggesting their conventional oil GN4 10w-30.

Can you point me to the "strong wording" in the owners manual?




That I can see the section in the back under specifications says...


Recommended engine oil:

API Service Classification SG or higher
except oils labeled as energy conserving or
resource conserving on the circular API
service label, SAE 10W-30, JASO T 903
standard MA, Pro Honda GN4 4-stroke oil
(USA & Canada) or Honda 4-stroke oil, or an
equivalent motorcycle oil

In the Maintenenace section page 145, center section of page

Selecting the Engine Oil
For recommended engine oil, see
"Specifications." P233,235

If you use non-Honda engine oil, check the
label to make sure that the oil satisfies all of
the following standards:
● JASO T 903 standard MA
● SAE standard 10W-30
● API classification

Then on right hand section of page 145 says:

The JASO T 903 standard is an index for engine
oils for 4-stroke motorcycle engines. There are
two classes: MA and MB. For example, the
following label shows the MA classification

<Then has a picture of the label>

The SAE standard grades oils by their viscosity.
The API classification specifies the quality and
performance rating of engine oils. Use SG or
higher oils, excluding oils marked as "Energy
Conserving" or "Resource Conserving" on the
circular API service symbol

<Then shows samples of 2 bad and 1 good label>
 

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If someone studies Honda Owner's Manual, it appears that Honda figured that out too. For example, from 2001-03, Honda had no synthetic oil. Their Owner's Manuals suggested GN4, Honda's conventional oil. However, by 2004, Honda began marketing their new HP4 semi-blend. In the Owner's Manual was even a full page picture of their new oil with strong suggestion to use it. The HP4 bottle even had the words "engineered for GoldWings" on its label. By 2007, Honda came out with their full synthetic HP4S oil, and the words "engineered for GoldWings" was removed from their blended synthetic, and now the Owner's Manuals were strongly suggesting their new full synthetic.

As time past, and I think on or about 2010 or 2012, their suggestions to use synthetic oils no longer existed, and it was then back to their GN4 10w-30.

My own opinion will be, coming to the conclusion that Honda removing marketing hype for their own oil from the owners manual because the oil is bad, is really a stretch. More like is they were simply removing the marketing hype from the owners manual. Honda has owners manual after owners manual for a huge range of motorcycles, cars, ATV's, etc where the manual specifies the minimum standard oil that should be used. They tell you can use other oil other than Honda oil as long as meets a given standard or higher. And does not contain the bad stuff from the resource conserving / energy conserving oils (in the case of wet-clutches).
 

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Synthetic Oils Cause Early Clutch Fail? - NOT

Greg:

I’m sorry, but I can not agree that synthetic oils are linked to early clutch failures. Clutch failures have a lot more to do with how the bike is ridden

1. Miles driven
2. Skill of clutch operator
3. Mechanical overloading of clutch
4. Wrong type of oil - i.e. conventional car oils with friction modifiers

I have been using full synthetic motorcycle rated oils in all wet clutch motorcycles without a clutch failure. I think your inference is incorrect
 

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Discussion Starter #37
My own opinion will be, coming to the conclusion that Honda removing marketing hype for their own oil from the owners manual because the oil is bad, is really a stretch.
Wouldn't it be great if it was all about marketing, like many skeptics think ??? If that was true, the powersport's side of Honda would be marketing to the automotive side with huge billboards bragging how good GN4 is for everyones new Accord ???
 

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You can not judge one set of burnt clutches with how everyone rides. I had 112,000 miles on my bike using Synthetic oil and pulling a small trailer for many of those miles. I did not take off fast, etc. At the 100k mark, I pulled the clutches and they still looked new. So what I am saying is the load of the bike, how a person takes off from a start (clutch slipping a bit to get moving) how you hold the bike on a hill, if you pull a heavy trailer and if you yourself and passenger is heavy. My trailer, I could lift it by my self to move it around while attached to the bike. I'm only 165 pounds. I'm not going to go out and switch oil just because of the above post. Also I did a comparison of motorcycle oils a couple months ago. Honda formulates their own oil to work with their bikes. I found that very interesting. I use Honda Pro GN4, now. I use to use Mobil 1 Synthetic. Honda Pro GN4 was rated in the top 5 for motorcycle oils.
 

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Wouldn't it be great if it was all about marketing, like many skeptics think ??? If that was true, the powersport's side of Honda would be marketing to the automotive side with huge billboards bragging how good GN4 is for everyones new Accord ???
I don't have any comment on the contents of this thread, as I'm continually wiping up drool from your current avatar.
OMG, you seriously need to post a link to more pictures of her.......beautiful. :1st:
 

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