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My dealer refuses to put synthetic oil in the Goldwing - only GN4. If you want synthetic, they will ask you to go elsewhere.


I also have a good friend who is a senior technician at a Honda dealership in Ohio. They also refuse to put synthetic oil is a Goldwing.


If you do your own work, it's your call.


If this is the case and Honda does not recommend synthetic, I believe Honda may have the owner prove the type of oil use before warranty work may be completed at no cost.
 

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I've drawn what I consider to be solid anecdotal conclusions from a lot less, LOL. I don't see a need to use oil other than the Honda-recommended one, even though I admittedly might switch in my car. It's GN4 for me.
 

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My dealer refuses to put synthetic oil in the Goldwing - only GN4. If you want synthetic, they will ask you to go elsewhere.


I also have a good friend who is a senior technician at a Honda dealership in Ohio. They also refuse to put synthetic oil is a Goldwing.


If you do your own work, it's your call.


If this is the case and Honda does not recommend synthetic, I believe Honda may have the owner prove the type of oil use before warranty work may be completed at no cost.
Did your dealer and senior tech friend give you a reason “why” they refuse to put synthetic oil in a goldwing? :shrug:

:doorag:
 

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My dealer refuses to put synthetic oil in the Goldwing - only GN4. If you want synthetic, they will ask you to go elsewhere.


I also have a good friend who is a senior technician at a Honda dealership in Ohio. They also refuse to put synthetic oil is a Goldwing.


If you do your own work, it's your call.


If this is the case and Honda does not recommend synthetic, I believe Honda may have the owner prove the type of oil use before warranty work may be completed at no cost.
If Honda's synthetic motorcycle oil is so bad then why do the Honda dealerships still stock their shelves with it? I'd be willing to bet your dealership has it on their shelves as well. Makes absolutely no sense.
 

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I have a 2001 used both and regular synthetic got 125,000 on it been using regular oil for about 80,000 no trouble with either.
My owners manuel suggested oil is GN4 or HP4-4 4 stroke oil. Page 121 of the manuel.
 

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I will also go on record to call BS on the synthetic oil causes clutch slippage. I have been using strictly synthetic oil mainly Rotella T6 all of my bikes over the last 20+ yrs and routinely whip the crap out of them on and off track riding at an expert level, No clutch failures and no clutches replaced due to oil or abuse. Scare tactic....no more , no less.
 

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Other DCT owners have said they use 15w-50 Mobil 1 oil and says it shifts smoother.
Is it because the clutch discs are slipping more (more wear) with the synthetic oil??


I for one am sticking with what's recommended in the owners manual, good ol' GN4 10w30 Honda oil.
Yes Honda filters too.:grin2:
Very reasonably priced, and readily available.:smile2:
 

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Discussion Starter #48
If Honda's synthetic motorcycle oil is so bad then why do the Honda dealerships still stock their shelves with it? I'd be willing to bet your dealership has it on their shelves as well. Makes absolutely no sense.
Honda's synthetics probably works well in their other models.
 

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I've used "BOTH" types of oil in my 2010 bike as well as my 2002 wing....(all was a m/c blend) All's I can truthfully say is that my bike "seems" to shift much smooth'rr w/ syn..... BUT as many of you may know that I am a oil/filter changing fanatic, and will never even think about leaving on a trip without replacing the oil.... I 've changed out oil even with only 1000 miles on it.. Wednesday I'm leaving again for northern Maine, to join the Americade group, for four days of riding adventure(s)......

and as far as Gregg's avatar, she'd probably be the last of me, I'd either be dead from her, or my wife would kill me...if she found out! (I'm sitting her thinking Hmmmmm which way do I want to die??) lol

Ronnie
 
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Wouldn't it be great if it was all about marketing, like many skeptics think ?

What would be great is if you could plow through your service records and pull up the data involving clutch plate failures. Hopefully you'll have recorded the data regarding oil type and can show an actual statistical correlation, or not, between the two. If anyone would have that data it would be you with all the work you've done.

Remember, I don't use synthetic oil so this is just honest curiosity on my part.
 

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Honda's synthetics probably works well in their other models.
How do you explain the sheer quantity of riders around the globe that have been running synthetic motorcycle oils in their Wings for literally millions of miles year after year after year that are suffering absolutely no adverse effects from the use of synthetic motorcycle oils?
Couldn't it simply be that your customer just didn't know how to properly use his clutch?
 

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How do you explain the sheer quantity of riders around the globe that have been running synthetic motorcycle oils in their Wings for literally millions of miles year after year after year that are suffering absolutely no adverse effects from the use of synthetic motorcycle oils?
I would explain it like this, and you can test this for yourself. I change my oil ever 4,000 miles. I chose the 4,000 mark for 2 reasons. First is because Honda says my Wing requires some form of service every 4,000 miles, and while doing the service that is required, my oil gets changed too. Second, because of oil shearing, 5th gen transmission get noticably clunky somewhere around the 6-6,500 mile mark, and I not care to listen to that. The clunkiness is what you can confirm too.

Others tell me the same ... that it does not matter what oil a person uses, conventional or synthetic, brand does not seam to matter either, but the clunkiness becomes louder between that mileage. Many will say that m/c specific oil greatly helps with the loudness of the clunkiness.
 

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OK guys I remember reading about this decades ago.

However, at the time I interpreted, "Being in the friction zone longer," to mean that it results in smoother clutch engagement, which is a good thing not a problem.

Unlike, "Energy conserving oils," the use of synthetic oil, all else being equal, does not cause clutch damage, in fact just the opposite is true.

Remember the primary function of motor oil is to cool therefore deposits indicate oil that has been over heated and has broken down usually due to inadequate flow rates allowing localized overheating. One of the major advantages of synthetics is that they maintain viscosity over a wider range then conventional oils and as you all know they offer superior stability as well.
 

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Wouldn't it be great if it was all about marketing, like many skeptics think ??? If that was true, the powersport's side of Honda would be marketing to the automotive side with huge billboards bragging how good GN4 is for everyones new Accord ???
Greg, I'm probably one of those people you put in the "skeptics" category. Motor oils are the highest profit, most highly marketed product of every "oil company". I completely believe your observations of burnt clutches.... but I also believe there is a lot more information that needs to be known before jumping to your conclusion that the problem is due solely to synthetic oil use. The first thing needed is comparative oil samples from the bikes with burnt clutches, as mentioned earlier every brand and brand application has it's own and different additive package and base blend. Once you (we) know the brands, change interval and can look at the shear levels, viscosity, TBN, additive depletion and perhaps most importantly wear metals introduced into the oil from the machine we (you) can start to narrow things down from your general assertion that the problem is caused by "synthetic oil". There are other "physical factors" that need to be considered. We know that previous generations of Wings are notorious for hard shifting, ghost shifting, jumping out of gear and grinding...point is everytime that happens "wear metals" are introduced into the oil....so we need to consider if that is a factor. We also know that many Wings are regularly and routinely loaded way beyond their rated load capacity of just over 400 pounds and there is no denying that very well could be a contributing factor to your observation. I would also like to know how many of the "burnt clutch bikes" were using cheap to manufacture hydrocracked "full synthetic" (that includes Honda's "synthetic") and how many were actually using a true group 5 PAO or Ester? Here's the reality: API Standards (SG, SJ, etc), and viscosity ratings (10W-30 for example) are "minimum standards" for new oil in the bottle. Some oils barely meet those standards and some greatly exceed those standards simply because some use much better base oils and additives and some meet those standards by using the cheapest to produce base stocks and additives they can to meet the standards. If anyone becomes familiar with analyzing unused oils right out of the bottle it quickly becomes obvious that some of the "major brands" use some of the cheapest additives and highest detergent levels to tame those additives in order to meet the standards....not that they are bad or not good oils, just that when you understand the difference between base oils, oil groups and additives you quickly understand that two oils with the very same specs can range from one barely meeting the standards with the other one vastly exceeding those same standards. Again, my point is how many of those burnt clutches were running "full synthetics" and how many were running higher group "full synthetics"? Which brings me to another point....shared sump motorcycles that lubricate the engine and transmission with the same oil are extremely brutal on oil because of what spinning gears do to oil. Oils with lesser quality base oils WILL shear down much quicker than "better oils" in shared sump applications so it's important to know specifically which oils were used in the "burnt clutch bikes" before making the assertion that it's being caused by all "synthetic" oils. I'd be willing to bet that the higher quality "full synthetics" and even better PAO and Ester based oils specifically blended for shared sump motorcycles are not the culprits of your assertion. There IS more to the story.
 

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Did your dealer and senior tech friend give you a reason “why” they refuse to put synthetic oil in a goldwing? :shrug:


Just that Honda has determined GN4 is the oil that should be used in a Glodwing.

:doorag:
If Honda's synthetic motorcycle oil is so bad then why do the Honda dealerships still stock their shelves with it? I'd be willing to bet your dealership has it on their shelves as well. Makes absolutely no sense.

Not saying Honda's synthetic is bad. Honda may use it in other vehicles (you know they make a couple of others!), but Honda appears to have changed course in regards to the Goldwing.


As an added bonus, GN4 is cheaper than Honda's synthetic.


I look at it like the discussions on this forum about fuel. I find it funny that there are probably people here that would argue it is a waste of money to put anything but 87 octane fuel in the Goldwing because Honda designed the motorcycle for that type of fuel, but then will argue to the end of time that Honda does not know what they are talking about when it comes to oil. How can someone want the cheapest fuel and the most expensive oil in the same motorcycle.


My senior tech friend has maybe 6 GoldWings from 1978 to 2018. Never used synthetic and his 2012 GW has over 400,000 miles on it. That;s 80+ oil changes if you follow Honda's advice. :nerd:
 
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Being an oil geek, this thread got me doing some looking and reading. I have to think and wonder if Gregs' customers with burnt clutches might have inadvertently used Honda HP4M at some point? The "M" denotes moly. Or...there are/were the folks who may have used "full synthetic" oils for automobile use that contained moly. I can remember reading threads on this board back in around 2007-2011 with guys talking about running "automotive synthetics" with some degree of skepticism about JASO ratings and wet clutches. One also has to wonder how many guys (well meaning) went in Walmart or some other store looking for cheap 10W-30 synthetic API SG or higher and then got confused by the stupid LITTLE energy conserving/non energy conserving "circle" smaller than the size of a dime and then just plain bought the cheapest stuff with the "little circle" on it even though in very small writing it said "energy conserving"? LOL, there still are some real cheap-skates around. Point is there is high probability that oil with moly was used at some point.

Moly sticks to wet clutch plates and would absolutely cause what Greg is showing us.

Even as confusing as Honda intentionally tries to be in persuading owners to use their oil, most of us can wade through or see through the confusion and figure out the correct weight, API rating, and JASO rating we need.....key words there are "most of us" lol

I agree with Trebor1978 above about Honda "changing course" and can explain part of it. For whatever reasons Honda decided to continue to use the same clutch materials they were using years ago that still require JASO MA rated oil while every other wet clutch motorcycle manufacturer in conjunction with API and oil makers (for a multitude of reasons I won't get into here) have progressed to MA2 rated oils and new clutch materials....Which makes me wonder why Honda chose not to do the same as they were definitely part of the manufacturer/API/oil company decision to implement MA1 and MA2? And while that's kinda' a different subject, it is absolutely related. I can't help but think if Honda had gone the MA1 to MA2 route there would be much LESS possibility for owner "oil confusion".... holy chit, they are still citing JASO "T 903" in their 2018 owners manual???? Just try to find a bottle of oil with that on it. And that brings us back to why Honda is now kinda, sorta, not recommending synthetic oil in their 2018 Gold Wing??? I don't know. I really don't understand. But I can tell you that if Honda moved up to the same clutch materials other manufacturers did they wouldn't have to kinda, sorta, recommend against using synthetic oil by only recommending their GN4.
 

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When I attended Wing Ding in Knoxville TN, in class the instructor said why spend more money than needed. He also said that some will use mid grade or super unleaded but it's a waste of money. During the test ride the Goldwing got better gas mileage running on regular unleaded instead of the other grades.
 

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Discussion Starter #60
Another one using synthetic oil with burnt clutch plates. However, this ones unusual, it's a 2-whl and not a trike.
372206
 
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