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Just my impressions and discoveries:

The Bike: '03 1800 - 49k miles - Full Traxxion Upgrade 6k ago - new Metz on front - 195-55-16 Pirelli Eufori Run Flat (130-150 dollars)- 35 psi.

Evaluator: 59 yrs old - 260 lbs - approximately 120k on 3 touring bikes - 36k on this bike in last 16 months - 30 yrs off road riding - former MSF Safety Instructor - IBA member.

In the last 48 hours, I have ridden this tire 650 miles, app 300 interstate, the rest 2 lane countryside roads and twisties ranging from moderate to tight. For those familiar with N. Ga.: Wolfpen Gap, Hwy 129, Hwy 136 and Hwy 60.

Road conditions were dry except for a few wet spots yesterday morning early in the mountains. Temperatures ranging from 30 to 50.

I will try to keep it brief. It'll be hard.

Yes, it does take slightly more handlebar input to initiate and hold a turn. And I mean "slightly". After a couple hundred miles, I had subconsciously adjusted and wasn't even aware of anything different.

This tire exhibited none of the squirrelly, jerky, unstable characteristics I had been warned about. I found it to be rock solid during every task I threw its way. While I have not ridden it hard in the twisities or pulled a trailer, I have done pretty much everything else on it that myself and/or any other Winger would ask of it.

As expected, it really shines on 2-lane country roads and interstates. I could actually feel bumps in the front wheel that never made their way to me through the rear. I don't think anyone could argue the peace of mind that comes with knowing that a rear blowout is an impossibility.

Straight line speeds to 95 and moderate sweepers at 80 were smooth and solid.

If I discovered a negative, it was a small one. In doing several quick-countersteer-obstacle-avoidance manuevers, I noticed that it was ever so slightly less responsive. The manuever works well and it recovers very well. It just took a millisecond longer to begin.

On the highways I had my rear pre-load at zero. When I got into the mountains I forgot to change it to my normal 10-15 to help prevent board dragging. Even at zero, at a pace that would have sharpened my boards even more, I drug them once! Noticably more ground clearance in turns.

In the turns, the transition of going from flat to up on edge and then back from edge to flat was seamless. I felt almost nothing. It was less than you would feel on a MC tire that had a broad flat spot in the middle from interstate riding.

I was told to expect a snapping or jerking motion coming hard out of a turn because all of a sudden you would have more rubber hitting the road. It didn't happen. I could tell no difference.

I stopped by Traxxion, after their normal hours, where I have painted some Top-Gun-type exercises in their cul-de-sac. As with the MC tire, this tire will allow the 1800 to do circles inside a 20 foot circle (2 parking spaces) and do a U-turn in a 20 ft box. No noticable difference in difficulty.

Let me add this ingrediant into your, "should I" soup.

If your experience/skill level allows you to be very comfortable riding your 1800 in all circumstances, gravel parking lots, bumpy roads, twisty roads, interstates, steep hills, etc, you will probably not mind the small differences you may find using this tire. You will probably adjust quickly.

If you have less than that comfort level, it may not be for you or you will just take a little longer to adjust.

Bottom line. I think it can do everything 95% of the Goldwing owners out there can ask of it. I think it will handle heavier loads and longer rides better. I believe the very stiff sidewall, the more rounded edges and 35 psi are the reasons this tire feels so much like a MC tire.

I'm leaving it on for a while longer because I have a 12 hr roundtrip interstate ride next Saturday to the Fla. Lunch run. I love this tire on the super slab. After that, I haven't decided. I'm sure I will keep it handy for long rides.

I hope this has helped answer some questions for somebody. Sorry about the length.
 

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Trialsman,

Glad it works for you. I'm really getting sold on the eufour. Understand, I don't necessarily want a CT to respond like a MT. I like the feeling of additional grip I get when my Eagle flexes. However, the greater strength and stability of the eufour will make it a smoother transition from a MT, and if it handles curves up to the point of dragging the engine gaurds plus still provides all of the other CT benefits, it seems like the winner.

Thanks for the info.
 

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Trialsman,

Thank you for your report. I have just the Traxxion rear end and a very well prepped front end with fresh oil, bushings, seals and disabled anti-dive. My findings are similar to yours after 3000+ miles on my Dunlop runflat. I have long ago gotten used to any differences in the riding style of this CT and don't have any complaints on how a CT performs.

Today we had one of our 3 yearly poker runs and we had 125 bikes go out into the early morning on recently frozen roads that are still covered with sand. The CT really shined when encountering sand covered corners so much that I forced my wife to let me ride her bike (with a moto tire) back and forth through a couple of sections and the moto tire tended to slip where the CT just maintained it's line with no notice of the traction deficiencies that were exhibited by the former. Not that moto tires had any real problems completing the task, it just reinforced the reality that CT seem to exhibit greater adhesion in many limited traction situations. Also during the ride, while leading a group of friends, I sent word back to not follow my lead on the next item I was going to try. I then took the bike up to 70+ mph and swapped lanes back and forth and practiced high speed avoidance maneuvers. The bike didn't as much as twitch once and was easily thrown into any direction I wanted. I then sped up to 110+ and was able to repeat the actions with the same assured outcome - works no different than a moto tire after you get used to the fact that you need a little (very slight) more initial input.

I did let 2 different folks go ride it after we finished lunch at they both came back with reports that while it was "different", they could both tell that they could easily get used to it very quickly. But as I told them, I am far from recommending anyone get one, but if they did, they would be joining the growing list of people who are out enjoying themselves on a tire not made for this application but that seems to provide a few of us with enough positive qualities to run one.

Good luck on you further adventures into "the Darkside"...


Craig Alberts
 

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Trialsman:
There is a hint in your report that you find the CT useful for the long haul but you might stick with MT most likely...is that right...also, I found the CT not so hot on 80 sweepers...we must be talking about different leaning angles...I would say I am referring to around 15deg. maybe even 20 on an 80mph sweeper...how about you?


Correct me if I am wrong:

The Dunlop Winter sport 3D has just as rounded edges as the Pirelli Eufour...that is what it looks like to me from the pics...does that concurr with anyone?
 

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Nando said:
Trialsman:
There is a hint in your report that you find the CT useful for the long haul but you might stick with MT most likely...is that right...also, I found the CT not so hot on 80 sweepers...we must be talking about different leaning angles...I would say I am referring to around 15deg. maybe even 20 on an 80mph sweeper...how about you?


Correct me if I am wrong:

The Dunlop Winter sport 3D has just as rounded edges as the Pirelli Eufour...that is what it looks like to me from the pics...does that concurr with anyone?
From looking at the photo's of the two tires in question, yes the two appear to have approx the same edge profile.

As far as 80 mph sweepers, I still haven't felt anything that some of the other CT users have felt which seems to be a tendency to wallow in high speed corners. Maybe my Traxxion rear shock is preventing this from happening?
 

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trialsman said:
I don't think anyone could argue the peace of mind that comes with knowing that a rear blowout is an impossibility.
Automobiles that are equipped with runflat tires also have air pressure monitors built-in.
Mini Cooper advises that when a tire loses pressure that the car be driven for a maximum of 50 miles on the runflat and at reduced speed. Runflat tires will superheat and fail if run without adequate air pressure.
Darksiders who wear runflats would be wise to also install tire pressure monitors. You'd have no other way of knowing if you have a "flat".
 

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trialsman said:
I'm leaving it on for a while longer because I have a 12 hr roundtrip interstate ride next Saturday to the Fla. Lunch run.
Looking forward to seeing it and you there

Dennis
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Nando, Bill,
Your perception is right, at least for now, because I have not pushed the CT in the twisties. While I think it could handle it, I'm just want to find out if I like the way it does it before I decide.

Yes, I did feel something you could call a slight wallow in an 80mph sweeper. I didn't mention it because it was nothing that caused me any alarm. It was slight and the bike still felt planted.

The two different tires may be rounded equally. I stopped comparing once I got to the Pirelli.

The pressure monitors might be a good idea. Correct me here, but I'm assuming that a sudden loss of air pressure would be noticable.
 

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trialsman said:
The pressure monitors might be a good idea. Correct me here, but I'm assuming that a sudden loss of air pressure would be noticable.
Maybe with some brands but I wouldn't count on it...
It's actually illegal to sell a car with OE runflats without pressure monitors because of that.
Fred's Smarttire thingies should do the trick.
 

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trialsman said:
I'm assuming that a sudden loss of air pressure would be noticable.
I've had sudden and slow losses of air. By 15lbs, you really know something is different. The tire rebounds much faster. With no air, the tire got squirrley at 75mph. At 65, it was very springy. Under 15mph, it took noticable effort to initiate a turn.

On mine, I notice a significantly different ride between 35 pounds and 25 pounds of pressure. You might want to try it just to know what to feel for.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Tom,
Thanks for the reply, but I don't remember yours being a RF. Am I wrong here?

And, Nando, been thinking about the lean angel when I felt the slight wallow. It was probably closer to 20% than 15%.
 

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As I got used to the feel of a C/T under me,I found that what extra input that I had used when I first put on the C/T,I was less consious of doing so.
I guess that could be why when I see the other users of C/T's saying it requires a little extra imput,I say I don't experience this?
I'm just used to it,and it feels normal to me,I don't even notice a difference of feel when I jump on my LTD or my 1500 with the R/T's on them?


Bill brought up a good point.
Just because I run a R/F C/T does not in any way deter me from my practice of always Inspecting and checking my tire pressures on a regular basis..
I do find that the C/T doesn't loose as much air as my front tire does,But when checked regularly I stay on top of it.

Both of my wheels were just chromed,So I know that both of the wheels bead area are as clean as new.



I know this hasn't been brought up before,or I haven't seen it? But it would be advisable that once you find the tire pressure that works for you,You should try and experiment with lowering the C/T's pressure just to get the feel of it,Just in case you should loose pressure from a puncture..

I think it would be a great idea to do this with the front as well!!
Then you'd know what a flat tire feels like..

I suggest you do such a thing in a parking lot for safety's sake.
And have a portable compressor with you,to inflate the tire back to normal pressure after your testing.

Might save you from going down in such a case when you are least expecting it...

The more knowledge you have the better you'll be prepared!
 

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Rocky, I have to dissagree with you in due respect please. The lower the tire pressure the higher the tire temp will be. It is the heat that destroys most tires. Ie tread life, inside deteriation of the tire etc. I would never exceed the tires max pressure that is on the tire. However if you read what is stamped on the tire it will say the psi ? is for this certain amount of wieght. What I would like to know is how much wieght do we have on the rear tire with your usual riding setup, such as one up or two up, mostly empty bag etc. Just my thoughts. One thing the naysayers need to remember is that the Ct just like a MT is built alot stronger than we think it is. It is really going to take alot of abuse to fail. That does not include a tire puncture or such.

Paul, Thanks for the write up. I am lokking forward to seeing how it performs for you.
 

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Toyo said:
Rocky, I have to dissagree with you in due respect please. The lower the tire pressure the higher the tire temp will be. It is the heat that destroys most tires. Ie tread life, inside deteriation of the tire etc. I would never exceed the tires max pressure that is on the tire. However if you read what is stamped on the tire it will say the psi ? is for this certain amount of wieght. What I would like to know is how much wieght do we have on the rear tire with your usual riding setup, such as one up or two up, mostly empty bag etc. Just my thoughts. One thing the naysayers need to remember is that the Ct just like a MT is built alot stronger than we think it is. It is really going to take alot of abuse to fail. That does not include a tire puncture or such.

Paul, Thanks for the write up. I am lokking forward to seeing how it performs for you.
Toyo.I can understand your concern..But please read my post again..I think you may have misunderstood my intent?
I wasn't advocating running constantly with low tire pressure.

Bill,raised the question about the R/F tire manufactures requiring a pressure sensor in R/F's, And that some guys running a R/F may not be aware of a flat,due to the thickness of the R/F's sidewalls,and could possibly have a blowout resulting from the lack of a Pressure sensing system on a goldwing running a R/F.

I was trying to say (in other post) that it wouldn't hurt anyone trying a little parking lot practice running lower pressure,To get the feel of a Flat (from puncture etc) while in a controlled environment as a empty parking lot.
 
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tomfranken said:
Trialsman,

I use and highly recommend a run-flat. Even within the run-flats, some might have stronger sidewalls. Remember, I run mine at 25lbs normally so we will have different rides.
How do you define stronger sidewall and how would the average guy know the difference? Maybe a list of those tires with stronger sidewalls is something thats needed to keep people on the straight and narrow.

I would hate for someone to have a problem and then for someone to tell him that he bought the wrong tire.
 

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Hal @ Honda Direct Line said:
tomfranken said:
Trialsman,

I use and highly recommend a run-flat. Even within the run-flats, some might have stronger sidewalls. Remember, I run mine at 25lbs normally so we will have different rides.
How do you define stronger sidewall and how would the average guy know the difference? Maybe a list of those tires with stronger sidewalls is something thats needed to keep people on the straight and narrow.

I would hate for someone to have a problem and then for someone to tell him that he bought the wrong tire.




Watch it Hal,Your attorneys will spank you for showing "Concern" for the Darksiders who are running C/T's..LOL :lol:
 

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Toyo said:
... However if you read what is stamped on the tire it will say the psi ? is for this certain amount of wieght. What I would like to know is how much wieght do we have on the rear tire with your usual riding setup, such as one up or two up, mostly empty bag etc.
I ran some weight measurements on mine. The bike alone full of gas and oil was 924lbs; 420 front, 504 rear. With 160 lbs added to the passenger seat the weight was 1064 lbs; 470 front, 594 rear. (My measuring system was not super precise.) With another 125 lbs, the bike weighed 1186; 484 front, 702 rear. For additional weight, split the rider 45/55 and the passenger 10/90 front/rear.

Hal @ Honda Direct Line said:
How do you define stronger sidewall and how would the average guy know the difference?
I don't know if any rf is stronger than any other or if it is just the extra air pressure causing different handling. Conversations I've had with people trying non-rf tires convinced me rf's are needed. The Eufour has been getting reviews that indicate it might be stiffer. Someday, I'd like to get a bunch of us together for some blind tests to see if we can tell one tire from another and come to a consensus as to the better options.

I would expect anyone trying a ct would know to start carefully and reject the tire if it did not work for them. I know a couple of guys who have either switched to a different ct or use mt for certain conditions but have never dropped the bike.
 

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Is there not some rating on tires sidewall...is there such thing as a double or single wall tires in motorcycle....the X riders used to complain that he 200 Metz was a single wall and thus too thin to hold up the VTX....

My first car tire was a Federal and the wall where like riding on marshmellow...the R/F duny was considerably different in that it felts a lot more stronger...

Hal,
How come they dont make R/F motto tires?
 

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Arn Butt Bill said:
trialsman said:
I don't think anyone could argue the peace of mind that comes with knowing that a rear blowout is an impossibility.
Automobiles that are equipped with runflat tires also have air pressure monitors built-in.
Mini Cooper advises that when a tire loses pressure that the car be driven for a maximum of 50 miles on the runflat and at reduced speed. Runflat tires will superheat and fail if run without adequate air pressure.
Darksiders who wear runflats would be wise to also install tire pressure monitors. You'd have no other way of knowing if you have a "flat".
I don't disagree that ancillary tire pressure monitoring systems might prove beneficial on bikes, but it should be remembered that bikes are way more generous as far as feedback goes. All I have to do is sit on my bike and walk it a few inches to know how the tires are doing.

Cars do not inform us nearly as angrily as do bikes.
 
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