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Discussion Starter #1
I just mounted a new set of Metzlers on my spare wheels this afternoon and aligned the two red dots with my SmarTire sensors, thinking that they marked the light spot of the wheel.

The tire was extremely out of balance, so I had to break the bead and rotate it 180 degrees. Ever tried to rotate a GL1800 tire on the rim? Can you say hernia?

Well, after getting it rotated, it took very little weight to balance it, so I guess on this tire, the two red dots marked the Heavy Spot.

Am I loosing my mind, or did Metzler just mess up this one tire. I seem to remember that the red dots were at the light spot, is this right?
 

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Sounds like you need to watch Fred's DVD's! :D
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yea, I actually almost busted them out this afternoon, but I was in a hurry.

I think I found the answer on Metzlers web site.

http://www.us.metzelermoto.com/product_ ... /index.htm

MOUNTING ADVICE FOR METZELER TIRES

Motorcycle tires were originally specified by the manufacturer. Any other use could be dangerous. Check for directional arrows. If present, mount tire so that arrow points in direction of rotation. Some METZELER tires have a red dot in the tire sidewall to indicate the lightest point which should be positioned next to the valve.
So the only thing I can figure is that the factory messed up the marking on this tire. I sure wish there was a way to verify the light spot before mounting them.
 

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Maybe the new tire dotting guy is dyslexic! Hopefully with some training he will be KO.
 

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Fred, I am on my third set of Metzelers and each and every one of mine has been like yours. I have the Mark Parnes balancer and all of mine have been light at the stem.

Also, I have tried balancing the wheels before putting the tires on and they have been way out. I thought the wheels were balanced prior to mounting tires at the factory, but mine weren't. I finally just took the weights off and started over when I got the tires mounted.

Same is true for the extra set of wheels I have.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Roy,

It is fairly normal for a rim to be heavy at the position of the valve core. I usually put my naked wheel on the balancer just to mark the position of the heavy spot on the rim, and then I put the light spot of the tire so it lines up with the heavy spot of the rim.

Metzler claims that the two red dots are supposed to be the light spot of the tire, but on this last one I did, I found it to be the exact opposite. All the other Metzlers I have mounted had the light spot where the red dots were, so I guess this is just one that got marked wrong.

The standard advice is to mount the red dots so they line up with the valve stem, since this is normally the heavy spot of the rim. By putting the light spot of the tire in the same position as the heavy spot on the rim, you minimize how much weight you have to add.
 

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Tire Heavy Spot

I usually balance the bare wheel after finding the unbalanced heavy spot on the wheel. Then I mount the tire on the balanced wheel and find the light spot on the tire. Then turn the light spot on the tire to correspond with the heavy spot on the wheel. I have found the red and yellow dots to seldom be accurate on new tires. Sometimes no weights are necessary when using this method. The tire sometimes balances the wheel.
 

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My first tire mounting was a Dunlop E3. The tire actually didn't even have a paint dot on the sidewall. There was a smudge if paint on the tread face, so I used that and located it at the valve stem. I couldn't get enough weight on the wheel to balance it. I broke the bead, rotated the tire 180 degrees and it still required a lot of weight. I broke the bead a second time, rotated the tire 90 degrees and rebalanced. Guess I got lucky and rotated it the right direction because it took a very small amount of weight to balance. So, on my second tire change, I put the bare wheel in the balancer and the heavy spot was 90 degrees off from the valve stem. This tire was a Bridgestone and had the dot on the sidewall. I lined that up with the newly located rim heavy spot and it required no weight to balance. It was right on. I have an extra set of wheels so when it comes time to mount tires I will check the rims for the heavy spot and not assume it is at the valve stem. I think I'll put a small punch mark on the wheel for future reference.
When I rotated the tire on the rim, I put about 6 fiber door shims between the rim and tire to hold the tire off the rim and it wasn't to hard to move.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
When I rotated the tire on the rim, I put about 6 fiber door shims between the rim and tire to hold the tire off the rim and it wasn't to hard to move.
Great info! Thanks, next time I will do that. It is a bear to turn that tire on the rim. I strained every muscle in my body doing it.
 

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Fred H. said:
When I rotated the tire on the rim, I put about 6 fiber door shims between the rim and tire to hold the tire off the rim and it wasn't to hard to move.
Great info! Thanks, next time I will do that. It is a bear to turn that tire on the rim. I strained every muscle in my body doing it.
Hey Fred, how are you these days :)

BTW, what balancer are you using?
I had thought ( until last tire change ) that a shop with mount them better than I could, but now I'm begining to wonder if some shops don't know much about what their doing.

I think its time for me to get more experience. :wink:
 

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Fred H. said:
When I rotated the tire on the rim, I put about 6 fiber door shims between the rim and tire to hold the tire off the rim and it wasn't to hard to move.
Great info! Thanks, next time I will do that. It is a bear to turn that tire on the rim. I strained every muscle in my body doing it.
What? It's two days later and no video yet?
:wink:
:lol:
 

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After working in a Ford Dealership this summer I noticed some tires were marked with a red dot, some with a yellow. I started researching this and here is what I found out. Yellow is a balance dot to be placed by the valve stem. Red has to do with run out of the tire and is to be aligned by the appropriate place marked by the manufacture on the wheel. If you note on new vehicles especially Fords they have a bright green sticker on the wheel where the red dot is always located. The tire manufacturers states if no dots are present the tire can be mounted at any location. After watching motorcycle tires I have noticed they have some red and some yellow as well. My last 880 Metzler that I just mounted had no markings. The Metzler before that tire had red dot on it and if I mounted the red dot by the valve stem it would take 60 grams to balance it. After breaking it down and moving it twice it balanced with only 10 grams of weight. With the red dot by the valve stem I could see run out in the tire as the tire spun on the balancer with the tire on the wheel to where it would only take 10 grams of weight almost all of the run out of the wheel was eliminated. I really think that is why some Meltzer’s and other tires cause the dreaded handle bar shake may have to do with tire run out. All the car companies have been fighting this as well that is why the bigger car dealerships have invested in a road force tire balancer (usually costing over 14K) it will tell you where to mount the tire on the wheel for the least run out and that position is always the smoothest ride and takes the least weight to balance the tire.
 

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Avon does not give you a clue; red, yellow, or otherwise. I clean the rims thoroughly and remove old weights. I balance checked the naked rim with the stem, core and even the cap in place and marked the true heavy spot which was about 6" off of the stem location. I also balanced the naked rim and marked the weight I used for safe keeping. Now when mounting a new tire all I have to do is clean the wheel, change out the stem (every other time) and clip my saved weight to the marked spot on the rim. Mount the tire (DO NOT SEAT THE BEADS YET) and go to the balance stand. The wheel/tire assombly will always settle with the tire's actual light spot at the top since the wheel is already in balance, mark that with chalk.

I then place a tire iron through the spokes and let the iron's ends foul against the front of the balancer stand, I can then easily slip the wheel around the rim as long as the soap lube is still wet. The tire slips most easily on the rim if I pull it toward me from the bottom ( I don't why its easier that way, but it certainly is). So I slip the tire's true light spot to match the marked heavy spot on my rim, then seat the beads and then balance the tire. This lets me get by with the least amount of weight possible. Hawk's idea of using wedges to allow the tire to slip shows good thinking for you folks using silicone or, (gulp) WD-40 as a lube. Not needed with the soap solution I use.

prs
 

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According to Metzeler's site:

Metzeler ONLY marks the DOT (code) side of the tire with either one or two red or yellow paint dots. These are to be lined up with the valve stem. If the the tire does not have any red or yellow dots on the DOT side of the tire, then do not worry about placement on the rim. And every street tire must be balanced to provide proper handling and performance.
That being said, I would still put the cleaned rim (with no weights) on the balancer without the tire to insure where the exact heavy (light) spot on the rim is and not assume anything about where they might be usually. Sometimes they are not......

DaleC
 

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I have re-visited this old thread because last evening I got down on the floor and inspected my frame (no cracks found - knock on wood); but my eye caught the two red dots on my new Metzeler rear tire side wall. You guessed it; they are 180 degrees from the valve stem. It took more weight than I like to balance that tire; two of the next to the largest OE type. Now, did I screw-up in my technique; or have I found another tire like that one Fred reported? I am not too happy about the prospect of breaking the beads on that tire and rebalancing it and it is not giving me bad vibes or such; but I am a curious kind of feller... :roll: Curiousity will likely get the best of me...

prs
 

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dicepilot said:
Maybe the new tire dotting guy is dyslexic! Hopefully with some training he will be KO.
That's a job I want!!! Tire Dotting Guy!!!!!
 

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That job is already filled. His name is Mr. Sheen; first name Moe.

prs
 

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I know the tirer dotter will get it RIGHT WITH A CASE OF CORNAS beside him.
Does Anybody has the address for left overs after CatCade party??? :D
Edmund
 

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Well; I went to the trouble and found that I was right in my mounting to begin with; I guess I just found another tire like Fred found -- almost exactly 180 degrees wrong in the marking! The shim trick worked pretty well and I did not have to use excessive lube on the rims with that trick. I still noticed that with the tire/rim on the balance stand and with the Harbor Freight long bar through the spokes to keep the rim from turning, that I could spin the tire on the rim only if I pulled the bottom of the tire TOWARD me. Pushing away or pulling at the top or front or back would not work for me -- from the bottom she slipped right around, best unweighted balance was still with the original postiion I had the first go-a-'round! Still took the the same two medium sized weights to balance.

prs
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Pigeon Roost said:
I guess I just found another tire like Fred found -- almost exactly 180 degrees wrong in the marking!
Well that isn't good news. I sure wish there was a way to verify the light spot of the tire before mounting it.
 
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