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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all:

I have a 2005 goldwing and I feel like there is too much fork compression (about 1-1.5 inches) on the when coming to a stop even under light breaking. Is this normal? I am used to sport bikes where the fork just locks up when the brakes are applied.

It has become a safety issue. So I would appreciate any advice or comments. I have had the front shocks replaced with progressive shocks.

Dan
 

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Check to see if the anti-dive valve has been defeated. On the left fork just above where the brake caliper mounts and on the front of the fork. Two allen head screws hold it in. Just remove those screws and make sure someone didn't put a nickel, with a hole drilled in it, between the anti-dive valve and where it mounts.

You may have to look on the HAL site for the fiche to see what I'm talking about. A lot of guys defeat the anti-dive especially if it quits working which will lock the front fork and there will be no travel. That may be the case here. There are a few threads on how to clean the valve to restore it's function. Plenty of threads on here how to defeat or disable it so you should have no problem seeing what I'm talking about. I opted to just buy a new one, only $37 from the local dealer.
 

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Hi all:

I am used to sport bikes where the fork just locks up when the brakes are applied.


Dan
What sport bikes would those be?

This is the only bike I've ever owned that did NOT dive under braking. Course, the forks did not move AT ALL. I fixed both real quick...

Certainly not a safety issue.
 

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click it
 

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What sport bikes would those be?

This is the only bike I've ever owned that did NOT dive under braking. Course, the forks did not move AT ALL. I fixed both real quick...

Certainly not a safety issue.
Honda has used the anti-dive on many of their bikes in the last 30 years, including sport bikes.
 

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Honda has used the anti-dive on many of their bikes in the last 30 years, including sport bikes.
I just had to look it up for curiosity.

Honda fired the first shot in the anti-dive war in 1969 with the introduction of its TRAC system (Torque Reactive Anti-Dive Control), but it wasn't until the eighties that it became more mainstream. Anti-dive systems were typically linked to the brake hydraulic system,

And more here:
http://www.pipeline.com/~randyo/82NH750.htm

Trev.
 

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The original complaint of this thread is about 180 degrees out of phase with typical for this bike. The OE front suspension travel is typically so very limited anyway that there really is no excess to permit excessive dive -- it bottoms-out within an inch or so when the total net load approaches even 250#. Perhaps the suspension has been beefed-up or our writer and passenger are very light weight. If the AD is as designed, then the cure for the complaint is to apply the rear brake along with the front brake as one begins to stop. The rear brake is the one plumbed to the AD. Gently applying the rear brake just immediately prior to the front may help even more with stabilizatoin and don't worry, the system is linked so there is still partial front brake loading too.

If the system is OE, but you are still convincced there is a problem, then a combination of factors may be in play. The AD may be stuck open instead of closed and maybe the springs are sacked or the fork oil level is too low. Perhaps the rear rebound damping is shot, giving a teeter-totter effect? A spring up-grade is a good thing with this bike, even for light loads. Periodic fork service is also necessary regardless the ommission of such in Honda's recommendations.

Let us know what is found in this unusual case.

prs
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The original complaint of this thread is about 180 degrees out of phase with typical for this bike. The OE front suspension travel is typically so very limited anyway that there really is no excess to permit excessive dive -- it bottoms-out within an inch or so when the total net load approaches even 250#. Perhaps the suspension has been beefed-up or our writer and passenger are very light weight. If the AD is as designed, then the cure for the complaint is to apply the rear brake along with the front brake as one begins to stop. The rear brake is the one plumbed to the AD. Gently applying the rear brake just immediately prior to the front may help even more with stabilizatoin and don't worry, the system is linked so there is still partial front brake loading too.

If the system is OE, but you are still convincced there is a problem, then a combination of factors may be in play. The AD may be stuck open instead of closed and maybe the springs are sacked or the fork oil level is too low. Perhaps the rear rebound damping is shot, giving a teeter-totter effect? A spring up-grade is a good thing with this bike, even for light loads. Periodic fork service is also necessary regardless the ommission of such in Honda's recommendations.

Let us know what is found in this unusual case.

prs

The teeter-totter effect is exactly what I am seeing. I tend to use 90% front brakes. When I brake, the front end dives forward and the back end rises. Those relative positions of the front and end back end stay that way until release the hand brake. When the brakes are released, the front end rises and the back end of the bike lowers. This is basicaly the way I have been riding from day one.
 

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Hi all:

I have a 2005 goldwing and I feel like there is too much fork compression (about 1-1.5 inches) on the when coming to a stop even under light breaking. Is this normal? I am used to sport bikes where the fork just locks up when the brakes are applied.

It has become a safety issue. So I would appreciate any advice or comments. I have had the front shocks replaced with progressive shocks.

Dan

Dan;

I just wondering? could you explain how it is a safety issue??

I'm an ex factory road racer with my anti dive disconected on my
1800 and I love it. So if there is a safety issue I want to know
because I do alot of 135MPH lock downs on the front brakes to
slow to 35MPH for corners here in the Blue Ridge mountains and
if there is a safety issue I sure want to know before I have a
problem.

Thanks
Chuck...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The original complaint of this thread is about 180 degrees out of phase with typical for this bike. The OE front suspension travel is typically so very limited anyway that there really is no excess to permit excessive dive -- it bottoms-out within an inch or so when the total net load approaches even 250#. Perhaps the suspension has been beefed-up or our writer and passenger are very light weight. If the AD is as designed, then the cure for the complaint is to apply the rear brake along with the front brake as one begins to stop. The rear brake is the one plumbed to the AD. Gently applying the rear brake just immediately prior to the front may help even more with stabilizatoin and don't worry, the system is linked so there is still partial front brake loading too.

If the system is OE, but you are still convincced there is a problem, then a combination of factors may be in play. The AD may be stuck open instead of closed and maybe the springs are sacked or the fork oil level is too low. Perhaps the rear rebound damping is shot, giving a teeter-totter effect? A spring up-grade is a good thing with this bike, even for light loads. Periodic fork service is also necessary regardless the ommission of such in Honda's recommendations.

Let us know what is found in this unusual case.

prs

I believe you're saying the AD is in effect only when the foot brake is applied. Is that right?
 

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Hi all:

I have a 2005 goldwing and I feel like there is too much fork compression (about 1-1.5 inches) on the when coming to a stop even under light breaking. Is this normal? I am used to sport bikes where the fork just locks up when the brakes are applied.

It has become a safety issue. So I would appreciate any advice or comments. I have had the front shocks replaced with progressive shocks.

Dan
Dan,
Fred Harmon has a great site with lots of pictures. Here is a link for the anti-dive group. Look at the main page for more topics.
http://www.pbase.com/fredharmon/antidive

Good Luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Dan;

I just wondering? could you explain how it is a safety issue??

I'm an ex factory road racer with my anti dive disconected on my
1800 and I love it. So if there is a safety issue I want to know
because I do alot of 135MPH lock downs on the front brakes to
slow to 35MPH for corners here in the Blue Ridge mountains and
if there is a safety issue I sure want to know before I have a
problem.

Thanks
Chuck...

I should have qualified my post. It is a safety issue for ME, because i have a short inseam and I am on my toes when I come to a stop. That in combination with the teeter-totter effect of the forks diving and then rebounding is likely to lead to fall someday. I didn't mean to imply this is a safety across the board.
 

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I should have qualified my post. It is a safety issue for ME, because i have a short inseam and I am on my toes when I come to a stop. That in combination with the teeter-totter effect of the forks diving and then rebounding is likely to lead to fall someday. I didn't mean to imply this is a safety across the board.

Thanks for the straight up no BS answer...

Ride Safe my friend..
 

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I tend to use 90% front brakes.
With sport bikes, that is fine, but on the GL1800, due to the fact that it has such a long wheelbase, low center of gravity, a lot of weight on the back, and especially due to the linked brakes, if you continue to brake that way, you'll only be getting about 55% of the available braking power.

Due to the factors mentioned, the GL1800 needs to have roughly equal front and rear brake application to achieve 100% braking. I know that is contrary to most bikes, but it's just the way it works with the Wing.
 

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I believe you're saying the AD is in effect only when the foot brake is applied. Is that right?
Almost right. The rear brake has a direct line to the AD sstem. The front brake has an indirect mechanical input to the AD system. You may notice that your left front brake caliper mount incorperates a pivot. When front braking force becomes strong enough, it causes the brake caliper to pivot upward and activate a secondary master clinder that has input to the AD.

prs
 

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The teeter-totter effect is exactly what I am seeing. I tend to use 90% front brakes. When I brake, the front end dives forward and the back end rises. Those relative positions of the front and end back end stay that way until release the hand brake. When the brakes are released, the front end rises and the back end of the bike lowers. This is basicaly the way I have been riding from day one.
Your brake application style may be in conflict with the Honda AD design. Although a very high percentage of our potential braking effect does reside in the front brake system; application of braking effort on our part should be pretty much equal to both wheels (but avoid rear wheel lock-up). I have to admit that I sometimes only use the rear; such as slow manuevers or using the rear brake to stabilize the bike (trail braking?). But typically I use both brakes at the same time. Then again, I no longer have a active AD and front end diving is no problem for me at all.

prs
 

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Just a pic of the plumbing. Note the arrows.
 

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Dan, Goldwing suspension deficiencies have been much discussed here. You say you had the fronts replaced with Progressive shocks.. Do you mean springs?

Go here and look around.. http://www.traxxion.com/gold_wing_suspension/honda_gold_wing_motorcycle_suspension.shtml

You might also do a board search on Traxxion. You'll find a lot of interesting threads.

As a sport bike rider you'll find that the Goldwing suspension is probably not to your liking. Honda designed it to be the two wheel equivalent of a 59 Caddy... springs way too soft, poor to no damping, rear preload adjustor underfilled, mixed damper rod / cartidge forks, an so on. They tried to fix xome of these issues with the anti-dive valve.

The good news is that there are solutions. As my father used to tell me, all it takes is money.

Solutions include:
Progressive Springs (which maybe you have...?)
Progressive rear shock
Race Tech Gold Valves cartridge emulators for the forks

Traxxion AK-20 cartridge replacements
Traxxion rear shock

All Balls replacement stem bearings

Traxxion or Kury fork brace

The best and most highly regarded solution is a Traxxion Full Monty. It's a little pricey for Goldwingers, but really inexpensive compared to similar sport bike solutions. While the WIng will never dance like a 15 year old gymnast, Traxxion helps it perform like a 29 year old Aerobics instructor.

If the front end is properly sprung and damped, the braking dive is much less of an issue.

You don't say where you are. If you are near NH, I can perhaps offer you a chance to ride a RaceTech / Progressive bike, and in a week or so a Traxxion bike. I'm flying to GA with my business partner tomorrow for training on Traxxion installation so I can upgrade bikes without shipping forks to Georgia, or riding 4 to 6 hours each way to the next nearest authorized installer. We have sent his forks down and will be doing a Full Monty on his ride. We should have his finished the weekend after next.

Dave
GWBBA #9
www.rocketmoto.com
 
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