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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone arrived at a torque value for the All Balls install? I have read anywhere between 17 and 35 ft.lbs.I understand you should torque the nut,then full lock triple tree about 10 times and retorque and repeat a few times.I haven't received the bearings yet and I don't know what if anything they recommend. Just trying to gain as much knowledge as I can before hand. Thanks Jim
 
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Jim, from what I understand 25 ft lbs is ideal, but... :?
(the Honda service manual states 20 for the ball type bearing)
I think Fred does an initial torque to 30 , rotates the head from lock to lock and then loosens the setting and only re-torques to 15 ft.lbs. He basis the 15lb figure on the factory specs for the GL1500 which uses tapered head bearings.
 

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I PUT MINE AT 25FT. LBS. AND HAD THE 40MPH WOBBLE. I WENT BACK AND PUT IT ON 30LBS AND NO WOBBLE . REMEMBER IT WILL FREE UP SOME AS YOU PUT A FEW MILES ON IT. I THINK ITS A GIVE AND TAKE ON HOW MUCH TORQUE TO PUT ON IT ,IT SEEMS TIRE WEAR,AND FORK SPRINGS HAVE A LOT TO DO WITH THE WOBBLE.[/b]
 
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Jlk8204 wrote
,IT SEEMS TIRE WEAR,AND FORK SPRINGS HAVE A LOT TO DO WITH THE WOBBLE.
I couldn't agree with you more, including the poor fork valving . I don't think attempting to "cure" another problem by over torquing the steering bearings is the answer . Maxx at Traxxion has addresses this issue in other posts . It appears the front suspension needs to be reworked for most wobble problems
If the bearing races have been installed correctly so they bottom out completely in the head, and everything is tightened down, there should be very little torque value change over time . I find that when the head bearings are over torqued the bike seems to wander on the road more and doesn't correct itself without input from the rider , it "feels" stiff .
But then I'm no pro... :wink:
 

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All Balls torque setting.....

I had mine (on the 02) set to 30 and found the steering to be very smooth and I could easily manage most freeway turns "hands off". A slight body lean left, I went left; body lean right, I went right. I don't think I could have done that with "stiff" or over tight stem. I still need to install on the 06.
 
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Douglas it would be interesting to use a fish scale to actually measure the amount of pull required to move the steering with that kind of torque on the bearings. According to Honda I believe it's about 2.2 to 3 ft lbs , that's not a whole lot of force. But if your happy what can I say . :roll:
 

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What I would recommend is that you torque them to about 29ft lbs, then turn the wheel full lock several times, back off the nut, and retorque them to about 22ft lbs. Then jack the bike and feel how much resistance that gives you. Ideally, you want to just be able to barely feel some resistance. The fish scale method is also a good test.

I typically like to overtighten them till I can feel they have too much drag, then I start backing off the nut just until the tight feeling starts to disappear, and I stop.
 

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Champion EZ-Steer kit for trikes replaces the bearings with all balls. They recommend torquing to 30 ft/lbs. Seems to work good on both our trikes. We have about 25K miles on them with no significant wobble.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Torque

Thanks for all your responses,Jack Huddle wrote and told me he has installed 43 sets of All Balls and I guess he has more experience than anyone on this board.He torques to 40lbs and backs off to 30lbs and has had no complaints on either his bike or the other 42 he has done.No disrespect to any one else,but I have to go with his advice.By the way he also sells Chrome wheels at at good price.This is totally unsolicited,I swear. Thanks to all that gave input......Jim
 

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Hi Jim,

I have just fitted the all balls to mine and did just a similiar thing. Went to 45 lbs on the initial install then backed off, re torqued them to 28 lbs.

Bike is still off the road as I am waiting for the CB and Mic Mutes before refitting the top shelter. Will post the results shortly.

Trev.
 

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Re: All Balls torque setting.....

DDL said:
A slight body lean left, I went left; body lean right, I went right. I don't think I could have done that with "stiff" or over tight
No offense, but you will be able to do that if the steering stem was welded to the frame! :wink:
 

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Re: All Balls torque setting.....

Srider said:
Douglas it would be interesting to use a fish scale to actually measure the amount of pull required to move the steering with that kind of torque on the bearings. According to Honda I believe it's about 2.2 to 3 ft lbs , that's not a whole lot of force. But if your happy what can I say . Rolling Eyes
30 ft lb torque had a fish scale reading of about 2 lbs.



Red said:
DDL said:
A slight body lean left, I went left; body lean right, I went right. I don't think I could have done that with "stiff" or over tight
No offense, but you will be able to do that if the steering stem was welded to the frame! :wink:

No you will not. If the stem was welded in place, you will never be able to turn at any lean angle. All two wheel vehicles follow the same general principles in how they turn. Tie off a bicycle's bars to perfectly straight and you can lean it dragging the "high" peddle and the bike will only go straight. I've done it. The front wheel actually does turn left for a left turn at any speed, many will never notice it (even expert riders) at faster speeds. Rake, trail, and other physical factors affect stability, the natural desire for the bike to come out of the turn to go straight again, and small differences in the degree of turn off of center dependent on lean angle.
 

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Hit the road for the test ride with the new all balls fitted. Rode hands off at 100 klm/hr down to 60 klm/hr and no sign of a wobble. (note it did not wobble before either).

The steering feels lighter and smoother and leaning slightly controls the direction of travel easily. Rode some "S" bends at speed and found the change of direction has improved. Bike also feels more stable at low parking lot speeds. :D

Trev.
 

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Auswing;

Not trying to put a noose about your neck and I may be wrong; but your statements about the improved steering stability and lighter feel of steering seem to be contradictory. Perhpas your OE bearings were galled or otherwise damaged? Perhaps you have some modification euphoria. The roller bearings should impart a slight sluggishness unto the steering and the that may be a good thing given that Honda may have gonve for a too light of a "feel". Enjoy the ride!

DDL;

I'm with big Red on this one. You are describing theoretical intuitive steering and the leading school of thought supports counter intuitive steering. At very low speeds intuitive steering rules, as centrifugal forces and precession come into play, counter intuitive steering apparently dominaates. I'm OK either way, so long as I don't have to think about it. :lol:

prs
 

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All Balls Torque

Lot's of discussion on the torque values here.... BOTTOM LINE is don't go under 20 or over 25. I have changed several and find that there is a difference between bike to bike but it's actually from rider to rider. The magic number is coming in at 22. Make sure you have the right tools for the job and don't take short cuts. Tapered bearings can take a lot of extra torque and are forgiving but you can damage them. Given that this bearing isn't really going anywhere your fine for the most part. The bearings need to be installed correctly and when done right you will find that torque higher than 25 isn't needed. Remember you must seat the bearings, meaning to Fred's point torque and back off and retorque. The second thing to be concerned is supporting the jam nut. There's several ways to do this but setting the right torque is key to preventing future re-torque. Have you noticed that Honda doesn't provide a procedure or torque value for the jam nut? Some may say that this is by design while others may say that there is a way to fix this wobble mess. In either case proper installation is critical to safe riding. Oh by the way... I found it interesting that local dealers are now changing out bearings "on request"...
 

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Believing that the wobble I had on my '05 should be a warranty item and that it shouldn't do that despite what Mother Honda says about it, my dealer actually installed the All-balls tapered steering head bearings for free! I bought them, they installed them. However, they would only torque them to the factory specs of 20 ft./lbs. I still had the wobble. Not as bad as before, but definitely still there, and at the same speeds and conditions. I then retorqued them to 27 ft./lbs. and several thousand miles later, it is still smooth and wobble free, even though my tires (E3's) have close to 10000 miles on them.
 
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