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U-Turn From a Stop

4023 Views 14 Replies 12 Participants Last post by  DDL
It's not a Wing, but watch how this touring rider initiates his U-turns with a sharp counter steering movement FROM A STOP!

Also, it looks to me like he locks his vision on the center of the turn, the point he pivots AROUND, rather than where he wants to end up.


You won't learn these techniques at a Ride Like a Pro course.
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I like the fact that when he is practicing he practices looking over his shoulder before pulling into the simulated traffic and making that U-turn. I am nowhere near that good but I have found that the bigger / heavier the bike the more that countersteer in needed to make a sharper turn.
wow, learn something new, i will go practice this.

another guy showed me on sliw speed driving, keep rpm above 2000, use the clutch and rear brake only, that helps a lot.
That little counter steer stabilizes the bike allowing you to get momentum (balance) before executing the U-turn..almost like giving you a little extra space. Probably not the best explanation but it works with the big girl. FYI...I practice with the short flat cones because I don't like re-setting them. :) Practice makes better..."perfect practice makes perfect" - John Wooden.

BTW...I notice no leaves on the trees...in AZ my wing is overheating at the 1/2 way mark.
I've also learned that really low speed stuff, Especially with the wing, that sliding your but off to the "high side" of the bike using your body weight to counter balance the bike wanting to fall over at low speed makes really tight parking lot stuff a lot easier.
Its a shame you got short changed in your ride like a pro course sir,,, Those exact techniques were taught along with extremely tight and reducing radius circles were taught in ours This is also [part of the Street Masters course taught in Lancaster Ca.
Great riding.
Yep, good riding for sure. Want to point out though that the Wing can do all those moves just as well. Technique is the same. The Wing may need a little more room because of its longer wheelbase but that's the only difference.
wow, learn something new, i will go practice this.

another guy showed me on sliw speed driving, keep rpm above 2000, use the clutch and rear brake only, that helps a lot.
Exactly.. The GL1800 low center of gravity, using a drive shaft, has plenty of torque. You can damn near come to a stop, (Rear Brake, feathered clutch, little throttle) keep her standing straight up. One of the many things I like about this bike.

Enjoy.
I practice with the short flat cones because I don't like re-setting them. :) Practice makes better..."perfect practice makes perfect" - John Wooden.
[/QUOTE
I consider myself very fortunate as a school just a few miles away has some lines painted in the football stadium's parking lot. A buddy of mine teaches the MSF class there and is also the drivers education instructor. He is also a retired motor-officer so he knows how to ride.

I try to go up there every few weeks or so and practice. It was the 1st place I went when purchasing the wing and every other bike I have had recently.

Something else that I do is I made for my wife a portable course. I bought a bag full of cheap tennis balls, cut them in half and cut a tiny hole in the center of each half. I then bought a couple very long nails about 8 - 10 inches so they can be threaded onto the nail through the hole cut in the top. I also picked up some very light nylon rope and tied the tennis ball to it every so many feet and wrap it around the nail.

So now I can slide the tennis balls off of the nail as I unwind the rope, stretch out the rope and I have an is instant weave coarse
. I can also make boxes, or concentric circles , figure 8's or what have you.

When finished I just roll it back up onto the nail and it all fits very easily in any saddle bag so I can have it with me when ever I feel the need.

Best thing is , I don't have to pick up the cones as I don't knock them down.


Exactly.. The GL1800 low center of gravity, using a drive shaft, has plenty of torque. You can damn near come to a stop, (Rear Brake, feathered clutch, little throttle) keep her standing straight up. One of the many things I like about this bike.
Enjoy.
I practice this on my way home every day just for fun just to see how far I can ride to work or home with out putting my foot down. I have made it all the way to work only once or twice. It is usually a good indication of how well my day will go for the rest of the day. The fewer time I have to put the foot down usually the better my day will be. Just a game I play with myself and makes heading to work a bit more relaxing.;)
That little counter steer stabilizes the bike allowing you to get momentum (balance) before executing the U-turn..almost like giving you a little extra space. Probably not the best explanation but it works with the big girl. FYI...I practice with the short flat cones because I don't like re-setting them. :) Practice makes better..."perfect practice makes perfect" - John Wooden.

BTW...I notice no leaves on the trees...in AZ my wing is overheating at the 1/2 way mark.
Actually the little counter steer is what initiates the lean. It is not to open up space. It is hard to see in real time but there is a great video on youtube that shows what is happening in slow motion. It uses a head-on camera and traces the track of the wheel. There is an accompanying debate with guys arguing with what their eyes tell them because it is counter-intuitive. The video was made to address the theory that below certain speed you do not counter steer and above a certain speed a crossover takes place where counter steering comes into the play. That is what I firmly believed before I saw the video. The video maker is a physicist who rides. His point is that physics dictates that counter-steering is always what makes the bike lean. Once the lean is initiated regular steering can come into play, but not before. In higher speed turns you counter steer throughout the entire turn. In low speed turns you only INITIATE the turn with a counter steer. There is no model or formula where a "crossover" point exists. The forces involved do not suddenly change. If you watch the above video carefully you can see the lean begin when he is counter-steering.

In the above video above the rider makes a pronounced counter-steer move, to get firmly into his lean. Once I understood this I started making a more pronounced counter-steer move to begin a slow speed turn, and voila! Everything got easier. Having a correct understanding of what forces are in play makes the maneuver easier to master. Leans always are the result of counter-steer. It doe not take much. Remember, the whole counter-steer phenomenon is so subtle that many riders are not even aware that they are doing it. I rode for years without realizing what was actually steering the bike.
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Don't get me wrong, I am a huge Ride Like a Pro fan, but the technique they usually teach for making U-turns from a stop is different, as shown below ...


So, our Road King rider "initiates" the lean by locking the bars and leaning the back by hand. "We don't need no stinking counter steering!"
Here is a cool way to practice a The Dip (quick counter-steering movement) while going slow. Jerry Palladino himself (with Donna) works students through an exercise with a cone for them to Dip around. So, yes, he's using very aggressive counter steering, but while moooooooving.


Ya gots to do what works for you!
On the Wing, I just cannot control the throttle in first gear to make good turns like that. Right turns, when the wrist is turned in towards me is the hardest.

On left turns its my neck, because, after fusion surgery I can't turn my head all the way over my shoulder.
Lean Angle Cntrol......

I don't remember riding that kink of a bike..... Other that that, it looked like me (the entire video). I normally initiate a turn from a dead stop by steering (via lean angle control). If I discover that I need to make a quick stop early in the turn, I can get out of it and stop without dropping the bike. If you pre-lean the start and see that speeding car pop out from behind that tree/bush/parked car, you must stop or be hit. But now, with a pre-lean, you must either pick up the bike with one leg, or pick it up after falling off. Using the front wheel to initiate the lean generally means an early stop does not get you in as big of a lean to leg muscle out of it.

Now, why I call it Lean Angle Control..... You are steering the front wheel out from under you to initiate the lean and then move it in the direction of the turn to carry the turn. To come out of the turn, you turn the wheel back under you. This works at all speed because of a physics related equation roughly represented by (speed) X (absolute value of handlebar turn) X (lean angle) = 1 To achieve a given lean angle but change speed, the handle bar turn must also adjust. Faster speed means less handlebar turn and less speed means more handlebar turn. These are the principals the first video demonstrates very well and also will let you achieve a peg scraping turn at only 5 MPH. Hang a quick 90 in a parking lot and have a loud peg scrape, you will get a bunch of heads turning to see you totally upright and wondering what they just heard. Some will have a hard time believing you about scraping a peg at such a slow speed.

Last little item..... The height of the center of gravity of the bike (rider and gear) also affects how much handlebar turn you need. A metronome will demonstrate that principal. Fortunately, the actual difference is much greater in what we feel in the bike than it is in actuality. But it sure makes a GL1800 much easier to get used to than than a K1200LT.
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