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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just read these stats for the aircraft model that hit the building in New York. Almost 3% of the planes have crashed . Is it me or is this acceptable in small planes?

Hersman said that as of September, there were 545 SR20s registered in the United States. Since 2001, the NTSB has investigated 18 accidents involving the plane; those crashes resulted in 14 deaths.
 

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Hal @ Honda Direct Line said:
I just read these stats for the aircraft model that hit the building in New York. Almost 3% of the planes have crashed . Is it me or is this acceptable in small planes?

Hersman said that as of September, there were 545 SR20s registered in the United States. Since 2001, the NTSB has investigated 18 accidents involving the plane; those crashes resulted in 14 deaths.
Just like newbie bikers. You have your newbie pilots and the Cirrus is one of the top choices for the (rich) newbies. Even though they are fixed gear, they are still considered high performance aircraft and thus are a little more demanding to fly than let's say your run of the mill 152 or cub.

Most of the fatals are pilots trying to run VFR in IFR conditions and they smack the side of a mountain, or they auger into the ground because they become disoriented.

Most of the non-fatals are pilots freaking out and pulling the chute and thus damaging a perfectly good airplane when they could have just used their heads and made a perfectly good landing.
 

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There seemed to be several things tha contributed to this accident, the pilot only had 88 hours flying time even though his instructor was with him, the area was quite conjested that they were flying in, this was a heavy air traffic area they were flying in, and they were approaching a no fly zone and attempting to avoid it. I've heard the so called experts on the news try and guess what could have happened, the best explanation might be something happened mechanical failure, wind condition, anything that may have distracted them until it was to late.
What ever happened I'm sure it was an accident.
 

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Even the slightest mechanical problem can be fatal in an airplane. That is why there are so many redundancies built into aircraft. However, there is no comparison in safety, airplanes V cars. I prefer “Wings” over cages any day! I f you read the NTSB annual publication called “Decisions” you will find a good deal of the reports conclude the accidents are due to pilot error. The Sirrus is in made just up the street from here. And, in my opinion one of the safest, and one of the best built aircraft on the GA market.
 

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A coworker owns his own small plane and flies out of Linden NJ. He is quite familiar with the area.

Basically, there is a corridor up the east river, when you get to the end of the corridor, one must turn back. It is a relatively small area, a tight turn but certainly doable.

I (he) suspects they got to the end of the corridor, were too far east and when they made the turn they wound up too far to the west and over Manhatten. the front page of the NYT has an interesting picture looking down (south) the east river....the building sticks up like a giant pylon.

Further there are reports that the aircraft was flying quite slow, almost at stall speed, which may support the claim they ran out of room to make the turn and perhaps slowed.

I suspect it is a problem with an inexperienced pilot in a very tight and difficult are in which to fly.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Sorry but my original post was intended to try and understand why someone would fly in a plane that has a 3% rate of killing the occupants inside it.

If commercial aviation had a 3% death rate no one would ever fly again.

I didn't mean to focus on this particular accident.
 

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It's OK Hal....it's early and we're still having coffee. Here's my take....like was stated above the corridor is narrow, he was not in the correct position to make a 180 degree turn(and avoid all obstacles), and was a bit slow. Upon entering the turn it was stated that he lost 200 feet in altitude which would have brought his speed up a bit...(he didn't keep the nose up while entering the turn) requiring an even tighter turn to miss the building. So near the end of the turn he's off line and headed for the building. Possibly he's now trying to correct for his lose in altitude and brings the nose up too hard which slows the plane and does not help getting thru the tight, and needing to be tighter (or WAY less tight) turn. Happens a lot I'd imagine.....just not with tall buildings around. Very tragic situation, and a needless lose of life.

All this is of course just my speculation and opinion. Of course it may well have been mechanical failure. But it was reported the engine was still running upon contact? Doesn't mean he did not lose some flight controls.
 

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If you spend any time on this forum, you'd be led to believe that way more than 3% of all Goldwings have the death wobble, so the plane doesn't sound too bad.
Instead of crashing into the side of a building like the plane does, Goldwings with the wobble swerve uncontrollably into Dairy Queen parking lots.
 

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Black Wing said:
I fly 100 flights per year. I should have crashed 3 times this year. I guess that rabbit foot is still working.
So you could interpret that to imnply that "it's not the aircraft, but the pilot that drives the percentages". I agreed 100%.
 

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3%

Hal,
I would think 3%, especially in a plane, would be a very high accident rate. I would guess, that most plane accident don't result in someone walking away, like bike or car accidents.
One has to wonder why an instructor pilot would let someone fly into an area that is that dangerous. Guess that was an error in judgement that they won't make again. Hate, for the family, that it happened. Stupid Hurts!
:cry:
 

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Silverback said:
If you spend any time on this forum, you'd be led to believe that way more than 3% of all Goldwings have the death wobble, so the plane doesn't sound too bad.
Instead of crashing into the side of a building like the plane does, Goldwings with the wobble swerve uncontrollably into Dairy Queen parking lots.
Sir... I would be honored to buy you and your lady a Banana Split at DQ the next time we head west. We seem to share a similar humor.

Dofricky...No disrespect intended, but "can be" is the reason we havent already walked on Mars. My old CFI preached that " IF you don't lose your "Jesus Nut" you got a chance". Pilot inattentiveness is a factor that will always surface in the Root Cause Analysis. Sucks, don't it.
 

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The fact there was an instructor on board doesn't necessarily translate into added safety. A lot of instructors are noobies trying to rack up hours. Some (I know from personal experience) are risk-takers. Speculating is fun, but I'll wait for the final report to form an opinion about why there was a wreck.

What I find interesting is the media tendency to segue this to terrorism and the overall danger of GA operations. Both bogus arguments.
 

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I am not an aviator, but the parachute system on these does intrigue me.



I would love to witness one of these deploying (from the ground, not from inside the plane).
 

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Part of the 3%, Hal, is apparently pilot dependence upon that parachute as a crutch. Several accidents have been due to the chute being pulled while the plane is going faster than the chute is designed for. In a panic, the pilots have forgotten to slow down before they pulled the cord. This has happened several times over the few years the SR series has been out.

3% seems awfully high. One could verify that on the NTSB/FAA accident database. Most of it is online now.

David M.
 
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