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Amsoil Quickshot, Amsoil Performance Improver (PI), and marvel mystery oil are my fuel additives of choice. Quickshot for the small engine powered saws, blowers and trimmers, and for the wing if it's going to sit for a few weeks. PI for the cars, truck and wing every 5k. MMO in the fuel for the old school vehicle to help it cope with the ethanol and for upper cylinder lube.
 

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Do you think that consistently using pump gas that includes Techron (or one of the other Top Tiers that includes similar additive) negates the benefit of adding it separately?

(especially in light of the Consumer's Report study)
Keep in mind that all fuels are mandated to have fuel injector detergents added to them. The AAA study that Consumer Reports cited found that the supposedly higher levels in Top Tier did help. But it took 5000 miles of using it to clean valves. A product like Techron, which is the same detergent used in Chevron fuel, can do it in one tank. So it's the same thing, just in different concentrations. (I would not use a dose of Techron in every tank.)

I am in the camp that says most additives are snake oil. But I am also convinced that fuel injector cleaners are beneficial. I do question whether they need to be used regularly.

My bike developed a bad pinging at about 50K. I had to use Premium fuel to make it go away. I was fairly certain that I had carbon buildup in the combustion chamber due to not enough freeway driving coupled with less aggressive riding. I put in some Techron, and the pinging disappeared. It stayed gone for the rest of the year.

I now usually put in a half bottle in my first two fill ups every spring to compensate for my type of riding and the pinging has never come back. Does everyone need to do that? No. It depends on your situation. Would Top Tier eliminate the need? I don't know. There are so many Top Tier brands now that I know I get it sometimes, but I don't seek it out. Periodic use certainly hasn't helped.
 

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My new Yamaha has a very random backfire coming off of idle. It is a big air cooled v twin that I suspect is set to run very lean. It will occasionally backfire if you ease off of idle. It does it one or twice a tankful. I have 30k miles on it now but at 26k I ran a can of Walmart brand additive( looks like a seafoam can). I noticed that it did not backfire for about 3000 miles after that. When it did backfire again I ran another can through and now only use Top Tier fuel... been about 1000 miles and so far no occurrence.
 

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I'm leary of Techron. 40,000 mile Jeep V6 had 4 out of the 6 injectors fail whithin 2,000 miles after I ran one tank full of fuel with one bottle of Techron added. Of course no way of knowing the cause of failure, but I used zero additive for 40,000 miles with zero failure, then 66% failure right away after, makes me wonder enough to have several bottles still sitting around I will never use.
 

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Keep in mind that all fuels are mandated to have fuel injector detergents added to them. The AAA study that Consumer Reports cited found that the supposedly higher levels in Top Tier did help. But it took 5000 miles of using it to clean valves. A product like Techron, which is the same detergent used in Chevron fuel, can do it in one tank. So it's the same thing, just in different concentrations. (I would not use a dose of Techron in every tank.)

I am in the camp that says most additives are snake oil. But I am also convinced that fuel injector cleaners are beneficial. I do question whether they need to be used regularly.

My bike developed a bad pinging at about 50K. I had to use Premium fuel to make it go away. I was fairly certain that I had carbon buildup in the combustion chamber due to not enough freeway driving coupled with less aggressive riding. I put in some Techron, and the pinging disappeared. It stayed gone for the rest of the year.

I now usually put in a half bottle in my first two fill ups every spring to compensate for my type of riding and the pinging has never come back. Does everyone need to do that? No. It depends on your situation. Would Top Tier eliminate the need? I don't know. There are so many Top Tier brands now that I know I get it sometimes, but I don't seek it out. Periodic use certainly hasn't helped.

Agree that there are a lot of uncertainties with possible fuel related issues. I have always used "top tier" gas mostly because for me, it's the most convenient. My '02 has 92k currently and I never have had any pinging or mis-firing issues. Plugs always look fine when replaced. My riding style is quite laid back for the most part but I never experienced any performance problem any time I have to accelerate hard. I do think that there is a useful benefit for periodically adding a "clean-up" additive such as Techron or Seafoam if non top tier gas is used regularly. My wife uses it in her RAV4 because she gets a significant discount from shopping at a super market. I don't know the quality of whatever gas they sell so I periodically will dump in a bottle of Techron "just in case"...
 

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Do you believe the F/I/cleaner in a fuel tank really work??

I usually put the F/Inj cleaner in my tank before I take a very long ride or trip, when I know that I will be using up a full tank of gas , in one trip....

If so what brand do you use?

Am I just fooling myself that I'm indeed cleaning out my injectors , and doing good OR wasting my money???

I used to do the same when I had carboratored vehicles... In goes a bottle of cleaner in my fuel tank every long trip...

Ronnie

Just use top tier gas and you will be golden.
No need for additives.
Honda doesn't recommend additives under normal conditions.:smile2:
 

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For those using additives and dumping in a whole bottle to a tank on the Wing (or any motorcycle) that is extreme overdosing for most additives. Some labels say it won't hurt, some don't and those shouldn't be exceeded, especially the aggressive cleaner type additives contain some pretty hot solvents/chemicals. These can damage fuel lines and seals in the fuel system, even in fuel injection systems.
My typical gas stations of convienece and choice are Top Tier sellers and have had no issues with fuel qualities and engine running. The ST1300 even ran fine on 87 octane (91 minimum was "required") with the mandated ethanol blend. Never had to use an additive during the riding season.
Off season is a long 5 months minimum. A few ounces of Startron additive per tank and never had a problem when spring finally comes.
 

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When you guys talk of top tier sellers... you aren't talking premium gas are you? Or are you talking about big name brands? There is one BP seller. It owns about all the BP stations around me. I won't go there as they had problems with water in their gas. Water in gas will ruin injectors. I bet that was what happened to a prior poster's jeep. I try to go to the same station when around home. Sometimes when out West I am just happy to find gas.
I have always used 87 octane in my Wings, ST1300, CBR 1100XX.
Back in 86 using shell gas in my 84 Wing I had this terrible knocking. Put some additive in and is lessened as the tank was used. Then went away entirely and never returned. I have always thought that a chunk of carbon broke off and eventually broke up and or dissolved.

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When you guys talk of top tier sellers... you aren't talking premium gas are you? Or are you talking about big name brands? There is one BP seller. It owns about all the BP stations around me. I won't go there as they had problems with water in their gas. Water in gas will ruin injectors. I bet that was what happened to a prior poster's jeep. I try to go to the same station when around home. Sometimes when out West I am just happy to find gas.
I have always used 87 octane in my Wings, ST1300, CBR 1100XX.
Back in 86 using shell gas in my 84 Wing I had this terrible knocking. Put some additive in and is lessened as the tank was used. Then went away entirely and never returned. I have always thought that a chunk of carbon broke off and eventually broke up and or dissolved.

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Google "top tier gasoline." It will explain all.

Tim
 

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Here is the list of Top Tier gas stations. Looks to me like nearly all of the chain stations are on this list. The only ones I see missing are Murphy (Wal Mart) and RaceTrack. However, I can get Ethanol Free gas at Wal Mart, so for me, that trumps Top Tier. I can easily add an ounce of Techron to bring the detergent levels up, which is really the only requirement of Top Tier gas. I'm actually more concerned about the condition of their in ground tanks, and how much gas they sell than I am if it is Top Tier or not.

https://www.autolist.com/guides/top-tier-gas



  • 76
  • Aloha Petroleum
  • Amoco
  • ARCO
  • Beacon
  • BP
  • Break Time
  • Cenex
  • Chevron
  • CITGO
  • Conoco
  • Co-op
  • Costco
  • CountryMark
  • Diamond Shamrock
  • Entec
  • Esso
  • Express
  • Exxon
  • Holiday
  • Kwik Star Stores
  • Kwik Trip
  • Mahalo
  • MFA,
  • Mobil
  • Ohana Fuels
  • Petro-Canada
  • Phillips 66
  • PUMA
  • QT
  • Quik Trip
  • Road Ranger
  • Shamrock
  • Shell / Shell V-Power
  • Sinclair Standard
  • SuperAmerica
  • SuperFuels
  • Tempo
  • Texaco
  • Tri-Par
  • Valero
 

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Extra octanne (91 and/or higher) does nothing for an engine that doesn't need it. Non-ethanol is a good thing although when used on a regular basis and not stored has not had any ill effects on anything I've owned other than high performance two stroke engines which can run too lean. Locally, non-ethanol 91 octane costs about $.60/gallon over regular 87 w/10% ethanol.
Generally a fuel retailer selling Top Tier gas has some sort of signage (or annoying audio/video if they have new type pumps).
 

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Before I comment here, I need to say that I realize Top Tier gas is the result of car manufacturers trying to accomplish something good for consumers, (as well as the reliability of their own cars) by raising the standards of fuel to a level higher than what government regulations require. There will always be people that try to find flaws in everything or create conspiracy theories. I really don't relate to that crowd, so I am taking a risk here by sounding like one of them. I am not looking for flaws. It's just what I observe.

The Top Tier certification standard says that all stations from a distributor must meet the Top Tier standards before the whole brand is certified. That is an absolute impossibility considering that the national brands have hundreds, if not thousands of stations across the country. At any given time, many of those stations are going to be old, outdated, and barely functioning. Someone already mentioned that a BP station near him had a problem with water. We have a Shell station here that I wouldn't buy from for lawnmower fuel. Their pumps shake, make horrible noises, pump out about a gallon a minute, are often out of order, and even have all the lettering on the buttons worn off. And they are so filthy you don't even want to touch anything.

So like Fred, I prefer to trust my own instincts over a certification. I look for clean stations with modern pumps, which tells me that I stand a good chance that I am at a station where the owner properly maintains his fuel delivery equipment. I go to local and regional stations like Speedway and Sheetz, who are not Top Tier. I may have to use Techron periodically, but it's a price I am willing to pay. There are a lot of bad stations out there, and they are usually easy to spot. Certification doesn't help much in avoiding them. All fuels are high quality when they leave the terminal. The bad things happen at the gas station.

I guess while I am on my soapbox I may as well mention a pet peeve of mine that makes my blood boil. I can't stand it when it is 10 degrees outside, I'm standing at the pump freezing my butt off, and I have to answer questions like "Do I want a car wash" and "Do I want to join the rewards program" etc. And it takes a 10 second delay for each question to pop up. I avoid Shell and BP like the plague because of that. The fact that they are Top Tier is irrelevant to me.
 

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Larry, I wonder if Speedway is Top Tier by default because they are owned by Marathon. Perhaps, as a subsidiary, they don’t pay the fee to advertise their Top Tier status?




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Guess I'm fortunate then that all the Top Tier stations I frequently use (Holiday and Arco usually) are well kept and have relatively modern (enough) equipment. Typically a station that does a steady volume of fuel won't have much of a water or other contaminate issue. When you are out on the road in unfamiliar places you take your chances and try to pick your best option(s).
 

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Larry, I wonder if Speedway is Top Tier by default because they are owned by Marathon. Perhaps, as a subsidiary, they don’t pay the fee to advertise their Top Tier status?
That's a good thought, but judging by Top Tier's requirement that all stations meet the requirements, I kind of doubt it. Marathon sells their gas to a lot of regional gas stations. They would have to have all Speedway stations certified then.


I have never noticed if there is a Marathon sign along with the Speedway sign. If there is, I imagine in that case they would be certified too. I will have to check next time I go there. If they are Top Tier, then I can safely say that it would not have prevented the carbon buildup that caused my pinging. That is what I use 90% of the time for the past 15 years.
 

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Do you believe the F/I/cleaner in a fuel tank really work??

I usually put the F/Inj cleaner in my tank before I take a very long ride or trip, when I know that I will be using up a full tank of gas , in one trip....

If so what brand do you use?

Am I just fooling myself that I'm indeed cleaning out my injectors , and doing good OR wasting my money???

I used to do the same when I had carboratored vehicles... In goes a bottle of cleaner in my fuel tank every long trip...

Ronnie
Do they work ?? Reputable ones ?? Absolutely !! No question. Now.............how often you have to add them in is another story. Definitely NOT as often as they claim on the cans.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
I also try to go to the busy gas stations to get my fuel, I feel that the gas must be fresh'er, at these stations, cause the fuel is not sitting in the underground tanks as long, and the company must have to REfill these tanks more often.. thus fresher fuel...[I don't know if stations actually treat their fuel with stabli or not, when sitting for long periods in the tanks]

Ronnie
 

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Out here on the ranch, I have to store gasoline for extended periods of time.
Years ago I experienced numerous Honda engine and small engine issues with the fuel systems because of the new formulations of the fuels.


Now then, with that being said, I now store, and run, all my gasoline powered equipment, especially all my Honda engines, with gasoline that I treat.
2 ozs. Marvel Mystery Oil , 2 ozs. Stabil Fuel Treatment, per every 5 gallons of gasoline.


I have not ever had any more fuel system issues, pinging issues, or performance issues in the last 12~15 years since.


This list includes my motorcycles, Pioneer Deluxe 1000 SxS, 2001 Honda 500 Rubicon, ZTR mowers, generators, chain saws, you name it.
Fuel systems issues have not been any issues for me for many, many years.


In my 1974 Chevrolet Blazer 4x4, I use Seafoam when I take it to town for a fill up.
 

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My concern with Marvel Mystery Oil, and I have no knowledge whatsoever about this but, is that it is so old school, (been around forever), that it seems to me modern chemical technology would have surpassed it.
And maybe MMO has been modernized as well.
:shrug:
I'm a fan of Marvel Mystery Oil, too. My Father worked for Chevrolet for his entire working career and he says it is the best. Yes, like you say it is old school. But, so is aspirin and yet it still works just as good as newer pills. I'm also a fan of Sea Foam. I use Sea Foam if my engines are to sit for quite a while. I use Mystery Oil if I'm going to fill the tank and run it out in a day and refill the tank and run it out. You know like on a long trip.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
it just snowed today so I poured in some "Seafoam" into the fuel tank, this morning while I was plowing my driveway.....(this way it's also in the carburetor) also..........

Ronnie
 
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