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Good points ... if you want, you can post your phone number here, and I'll have all the ones who call here, call you too. That way you can share your thoughts directly with them, and also see various trends. In this case the frequency and short life aftermarket starters have when compared to OEM starter.
Not necessary. The fact that you would post this shows you don't understand how reliability studies are done.

You don't get it and I won't get it (reliable data) from owner reported phone calls.
 

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Discussion Starter #82 (Edited)
Not necessary. The fact that you would post this shows you don't understand how reliability studies are done.

You don't get it and I won't get it (reliable data) from owner reported phone calls.
Hopefully the title of the thread has some meaning.

If you do a search, there are plenty of other members on the forum here, gl1800riders, who have learned the same.
 

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Would links from aftermarket starter failures from others here on the forum help ... or are those no good either ???
If you don't know what failed or the failure mode and the history of the part, the install; maintenance; or use/misuse/abuse then all we do is use supposition and conjecture to arrive at a conclusion. Some guy on the phone, God bless him, tells you what he knows or what you ask him he knows. Because he knows less than you do it's faulty logic to use that information to arrive at a conclusion that stands up to scrutiny. We all have participated in a conversation or long thread trying to help someone only to find 50 exchanges in that he didn't know what he was looking at or trying to describe in the first place. Any opinion formed on exchanges like that cannot be turned into facts.
 

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Discussion Starter #84
If you don't know what failed or the failure mode and the history of the part, the install; maintenance; or use/misuse/abuse then all we do is use supposition and conjecture to arrive at a conclusion. Some guy on the phone, God bless him, tells you what he knows or what you ask him he knows. Because he knows less than you do it's faulty logic to use that information to arrive at a conclusion that stands up to scrutiny. We all have participated in a conversation or long thread trying to help someone only to find 50 exchanges in that he didn't know what he was looking at or trying to describe in the first place. Any opinion formed on exchanges like that cannot be turned into facts.
If you go to Honda's parts fishe you'll see assy. #12 is available, but the cost is far more then a $100 starter. Apparently in the aftermarket world they've found a different supplier with a different design. In the aftermarket world, some of are held together with a roll pin. Unfortunately, their other design works, but not for long. You are correct about Honda starters failing too. However, they have a known history of lasting a long, long time, with most riders never having to replace them. But that's not the case once an aftermarket starter is used. The life expectancy then, and because part #12 is his held together in various different ways, usually the replacement starter's life is less than a year, and in some cases, maybe 2, many a few months. A lot of it probably has to do with 5th gens have reverse; thus, the starter is being use for 2 purposes.

If you hang out on the tech forum, there's often a thread or 2 where a member reports the same.

starter-motor
 

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Discussion Starter #85
Mike contacts me regarding his 2008 with 16k on the ODM. He bought it 3 years ago with only 8k on the ODM. He states that as soon as he got it he noticed something was wrong with the transmission. Now it hiccups in 5th and sometimes while in 5th it will shift out into a false neutral ... nothing new about any of that !!!

Like many he's gonna sell it; thus, another 5th gen's gonna get sold on the used market with a major transmission problems.
 

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Discussion Starter #86
A guy calls with a 2015 with heated grips. He wants his heated grips removed and some others installed that he can install throttle rockers on, and apparently these throttle rockers will hold their position. After some questioning, he's had other 5th gens, and is familiar with what he needs. His question is if I do that type of work.

Certainly ... but to properly remove his heated grips requires removal of the seat, the shelter, and the cowl, to lift the right radiator and unplug the grips, which he knew was labor intense.

I advised him that's the way it would be done here. However, I also said there are other shops that would probably be willing to cut his wires. I said that was more of a shade-tree way of doing it, and those methods are not done here.

Here at JustWings, we'd never want a reputation of doing things like that, and we'd only do a proper removal and installation.
 

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I would have to venture a guess that he has a very specific set of grips with throttle rockers in mind but can't imagine what they would be.
There are a large number of throttle rockers out there that will work with his OEM grips. And most sell for under $10.

Images for Motorcycle Throttle Rockers
 

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Discussion Starter #88
I would have to venture a guess that he has a very specific set of grips with throttle rockers in mind but can't imagine what they would be.
There are a large number of throttle rockers out there that will work with his OEM grips. And most sell for under $10.

Images for Motorcycle Throttle Rockers
He said they work great with Kury grips installed, but they replace the OEM ones. He also said he had rockers on both sides, so I'm sure what ever they are, they must be a left and right. I'm not sure I've ever seen on the left side. He also says he has small hands.
 

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He said they work great with Kury grips installed, but they replace the OEM ones. He also said he had rockers on both sides, so I'm sure what ever they are, they must be a left and right. I'm not sure I've ever seen on the left side. He also says he has small hands.
Funny.. small hands... bigger grips... Compensating for something? Joking ;) :rolleyes:
I've got small hands too but am much more comfortable with the OEM grips because of it. The Kuryakyn grips seem to be too big for my tastes. But to each their own.
I seem to recall that Kuryakyn made grips that fit over the OEM grips but I may be mistaken.
Not a Kuryakyn Grip fan so I never looked into them.
 

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Discussion Starter #90
A guy from TX cals. I believe he has a 2003 with 28k. He'd replace the alternator with one he ordered from Wal-Mart about a year ago. He'd been reading various forums, and had diagnosed his issue as a failing ADG. I had him send me a recording.

After listening to his recording, and hearing a flutter or chatter, my recommendation was to remove the alternator, and install a good known one. If the noise is still there, then the engine needs pulled. However, I doubt it will be. My advise ... here at JustWings an engine has to prove it needs removed before coming to that conclusion. There is no way I'd be pulling your engine without more info.
 

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Discussion Starter #91
Rob called on Mon and leaves a VM that he has to cancel his appointment for his 16k service on his F6B. His battery went dead over the weekend, and had to have it towed to a Honda dealer ... JustWings is not open then. Darn, so I thought I'd lost a service to the dealer. But he called today, saying they'd changed the battery, and was still bringing it to me for it service. Thank you Rob !!! Picking it up at a dealer and bringing it to me is a nice way for a customer to say they like your service over what the dealer offers.
 

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I have searched in your forum and did not find the answer. Sorry if this is a repeat quesiton. What years are safe to buy to avoid the transmission problems? 2012 and newer?
Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #93
I have searched in your forum and did not find the answer. Sorry if this is a repeat quesiton. What years are safe to buy to avoid the transmission problems? 2012 and newer?
Thanks
I describe the issue as being percentage based ... there is no year that is excluded. However, Honda did change their gear design for 4th and 5th gears from 2014-17. Some still report issues, but those problems are much less. As for the 2001-13s, sales where higher in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2010, and 12s, so one will often hear more about transmission issues in those years.

My advice, don't buy a used one unless it has at least 1 year left of Honda warranty. Since most who come here for transmission repair will say that "they bought their Wing less then 6 months ago." Since transmission's gradually get worst over time, like a 2+ year period, to me that means the prior owner knew his Wing has a problem, and if the prior owner is planning on selling his, instead of fixing it, it's best to sell it before the issue becomes reproducible.
 

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Discussion Starter #94
Here's a good story that I should have wrote down when I go off the phone.

Guy calls Tuesday about his 2003 having a transmission issues. He'd bought it used, I think 3 years ago with low miles (28k). Because of dog clatter I believe he said it is now no longer ridable. I started telling him that it probably started prior to him owning it, and the prior owner possibly selling it before it become a reproducible symptoms. Basically, I was telling him to stay away from buying another used one ... the used market is flooded with them. I continued to describe how both my 2004 and 2007 started with a very quiet, innocent hiccup, that most would't recognize as an issue. His replay "that's exactly what my 2008 is doing now." I think he'd bought that one a few months ago. He too has two 5th gens with transmission issues.
 

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I describe the issue as being percentage based ... there is no year that is excluded. However, Honda did change their gear design for 4th and 5th gears from 2014-17. Some still report issues, but those problems are much less. As for the 2001-13s, sales where higher in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2010, and 12s, so one will often hear more about transmission issues in those years.

My advice, don't buy a used one unless it has at least 1 year left of Honda warranty. Since most who come here for transmission repair will say that "they bought their Wing less then 6 months ago." Since transmission's gradually get worst over time, like a 2+ year period, to me that means the prior owner knew his Wing has a problem, and if the prior owner is planning on selling his, instead of fixing it, it's best to sell it before the issue becomes reproducible.
If I test ride a 2008, is there any special shifting to testing I can do to see if it has a problem with the transmission in just an hour? I think you said it takes months to identify a problem.
thanks again!
 

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Discussion Starter #96
If I test ride a 2008, is there any special shifting to testing I can do to see if it has a problem with the transmission in just an hour? I think you said it takes months to identify a problem.
thanks again!
Shift it hundreds of times in and out of 5th. Test ride it like you have no idea under what conditions it might occur, and you are trying to create those conditions. For example, try moving the shifter fast, then slow. The shifting at higher speeds, then slower speeds, faster clutching, slower clutching, going up hill, going down hill, at higher RPMs, then slower ones ... etc !!! Do hundreds of various combinations.
 
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