GL1800Riders Forums banner

1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
As mentioned in previous post about an intermittent problem with shock preload switch nav unit going black, I'm a 40+ year rider new to Goldwings. I dropped my 2010 wing (purchased in Dec) at the dealership to research the above issues. I said I assumed this would be fixed under warranty. They said yes, as long as they could duplicate the problem. I said "you mean if you can not duplicate it I get charged a nuisance fee"? They said, unfortunately yes. I promised them I wasn't making this up just to screw with them

Seems wrong that I buy a brand new bike, it already has issues and Honda doesn't stand behind it. I wonder if that is standard Honda or just the local dealership?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,603 Posts
The dealer is paid a certain amount for a warranty claim.
They are vary reluctant to do any searching for a defect especially anything to do w/electronic items as they have very little or no knowledge of these item. They are more R&R(remove and replace) on these items.
It will be very difficult to replace the correct item(s) if they can not duplicate the default and Honda will not honor a claim for random parts replacement without finding the defective part that caused the problem!

Just as a thought-there were several 2010's stored for a long time. These were actually built in 2009. If the battery was not "put in service" properly, that may be the problem. I would ask (and observe) the dealer to load test the battery. Just a thought.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,934 Posts
As mentioned in previous post about an intermittent problem with shock preload switch nav unit going black, I'm a 40+ year rider new to Goldwings. I dropped my 2010 wing (purchased in Dec) at the dealership to research the above issues. I said I assumed this would be fixed under warranty. They said yes, as long as they could duplicate the problem. I said "you mean if you can not duplicate it I get charged a nuisance fee"? They said, unfortunately yes. I promised them I wasn't making this up just to screw with them

Seems wrong that I buy a brand new bike, it already has issues and Honda doesn't stand behind it. I wonder if that is standard Honda or just the local dealership?
I had that problem with my '09, however it seemed that it only occurred when it was cold. Ended up taking it to the dealer and having them leave it outside in sub freezing weather overnight. When they turned on the ignition it failed. Ended up with a new NAVI unit and it appears to have fixed the problem. That was in January and hasn't happened again. Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,385 Posts
I found the Honda Goldwing has the best bike warranty in the business. Intermitent problems are always hard to pinpoint
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,212 Posts
When I was a GM tech, the service manager would just run a fake wire repair etc... To cover the labor time
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,245 Posts
Te last bike I had in the shop before we closed ,was a suzuki c90,with 700 miles on it.
I ran the service history on it,and the selling dealer had done several warranty repairs on the bike.
I told the customer that it was very unusual to have that many problems on a Suzuki,and he said this is the first time the bike had been in to any shop,for any service,and he had never had a problem with it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,927 Posts
Way back in 1972 I bought a new 750 Honda, about 6 months later the clutch just didn't feel right, I think there was only a 1 year warranty on the bike back then. The dealer told me to ride it and if it acted up after the warranty had expired he would replace it and bill it to another bike that was still under warranty.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,396 Posts
As mentioned in previous post about an intermittent problem with shock preload switch nav unit going black, I'm a 40+ year rider new to Goldwings. I dropped my 2010 wing (purchased in Dec) at the dealership to research the above issues. I said I assumed this would be fixed under warranty. They said yes, as long as they could duplicate the problem. I said "you mean if you can not duplicate it I get charged a nuisance fee"? They said, unfortunately yes. I promised them I wasn't making this up just to screw with them

Seems wrong that I buy a brand new bike, it already has issues and Honda doesn't stand behind it. I wonder if that is standard Honda or just the local dealership?
I think I have more Warranty experience (10-warranty repairs currently) than anyone else on this board with the same bike!!

So here is how Honda deals with warranty repairs!

First off HONDA "DOES NOT" own any dealers!
A Dealer is Privately owned. A dealer is nothing more than a business that deals in selling motorcycle related items.
Honda can't tell them what to change you for unrelated warranty repairs.Nor will they authorize a repair unless "IT IS A DEFECTIVE PART" that will be replaced under warranty.

The way Honda works is like this.
"They have no idea if the customers complaint is warranty related or not" That is why you take it to a dealer.
They diagnose the problem,and then call Honda Techline to advise them of what they find wrong with the bike.

Honda Techline will then authorize the repair if it feels it should be covered under warranty or not.

Then it's up to the dealer not Honda how fast that repair is completed.
Once Honda authorizes the repair.The dealer then can order related parts to correct the issue.
The problem (which is not Honda's fault) is dealers just plain hate warranty repairs due to the warranty labor rate they agreed to when then decided to SELL HONDA PRODUCTS.I believe it's somewhere 1/2 of what they can squeeze out of a walk in customer?.

We the consumer are the ones who get screwed by the DEALER not by Honda who most direct their frustration towards just because it's a Honda product!

Dealers have to "First" diagnose the customer issue to determine who is going to pay for the problem.This is why they told you a "standard statement".

No one can expect Honda to pay for something that isn't defective.
Honda does stand by their products if a warranty repair falls into a warranty claim of a defective part.

It's up to the consumer to pay for a "Check out fee" to see if it's Covered under Warranty.If it is then there is no fee for the repair.
If it's not a defective part,then it's on the consumers dime to pay for the repair that isn't defective,but caused by the consumer by what ever they or they had done to their bike.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,257 Posts
well said

What Rocky said. Just an additional opinion of mine. Almost every big ticket manufacturer handles warranty this same way. From what I've seen, Honda is better than most at the manufcturers level, in trying to be fair. The key, not surprisingly, is the dealer. Most of us don't support the good ones (financially) well enough. jmo

Richard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
878 Posts
So if a dealer charges you a fee and fails to find the problem and you find another dealer that can find the problem (and repairs it under warranty) , your still out the money from the first one.??? If it were I, then I believe the first dealer would be refunding my money... Else they could refund my money as well as pay my lawyer so cash too...
It works that way in the medical industry, why not on the bike industry as well ??? If a dealer doesn’t want to pay the $ to have good trained techs, then I feel that is on him (or her)… Back in the day when I worked for a Ford dealership, if a vehicle was returned because the problem had not been fixed on the first time in the shop, the customer did not get charged for the second visit (unless out of warranty parts were required)… The mechanic from the first visit had his name placed on a board as a result… Let this happen three times and you were no longer a mechanic at that dealership… Why have we become a society so tolerant of incompetence ???
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,603 Posts
IMHO, becoming an "AuthorizedDealer" contains certain responsibilities.
Number ONE is customer service!
To me that means, for example, when a customer brings in his/her bike with a concern they feel is a warranty item then it becomes the service writers responsibility to:
1. Accurately write up the customers explanation(whatever it is)
2. Review the bike for unapproved mods or accessories that might be in play. If found the customer should be notified immediately the repair is not going to be covered under warranty and why.
3. If any inspection/testing/whatever is needed to diagnose the problem is needed then it should be the dealers responsibility to do so. At the point a "cause" is located, if it is determined not to be a warranty item, the customer should be notified, informed of the finding, told how much is owed at this time and asked if he/she wants the repair completed or not. If the manufacture must get involved then the customer also deserves a call to be informed of this.
Wouldn't that be nice-That's how my local Honda dealership is and they are the oldest there is - still open - still tops!
The Oldest Honda Dealer in the Country!4152 W. Washington St. Indianapolis, Indiana
Dreyer Honda
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,251 Posts
Maybe in Zanadu it works that way. It definitely does NOT work like that in most Honda dealerships, and it's gettin' WORSE all the time with so many going out of business. Many dealers now do not even keep GW techs on the payroll anymore.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
18,413 Posts
I think I have more Warranty experience (10-warranty repairs currently) than anyone else on this board with the same bike!!

So here is how Honda deals with warranty repairs!

First off HONDA "DOES NOT" own any dealers!
A Dealer is Privately owned. A dealer is nothing more than a business that deals in selling motorcycle related items.
Honda can't tell them what to change you for unrelated warranty repairs.Nor will they authorize a repair unless "IT IS A DEFECTIVE PART" that will be replaced under warranty.

The way Honda works is like this.
"They have no idea if the customers complaint is warranty related or not" That is why you take it to a dealer.
They diagnose the problem,and then call Honda Techline to advise them of what they find wrong with the bike.

Honda Techline will then authorize the repair if it feels it should be covered under warranty or not.

Then it's up to the dealer not Honda how fast that repair is completed.
Once Honda authorizes the repair.The dealer then can order related parts to correct the issue.
The problem (which is not Honda's fault) is dealers just plain hate warranty repairs due to the warranty labor rate they agreed to when then decided to SELL HONDA PRODUCTS.I believe it's somewhere 1/2 of what they can squeeze out of a walk in customer?.

We the consumer are the ones who get screwed by the DEALER not by Honda who most direct their frustration towards just because it's a Honda product!

Dealers have to "First" diagnose the customer issue to determine who is going to pay for the problem.This is why they told you a "standard statement".

No one can expect Honda to pay for something that isn't defective.
Honda does stand by their products if a warranty repair falls into a warranty claim of a defective part.

It's up to the consumer to pay for a "Check out fee" to see if it's Covered under Warranty.If it is then there is no fee for the repair.
If it's not a defective part,then it's on the consumers dime to pay for the repair that isn't defective,but caused by the consumer by what ever they or they had done to their bike.
Exactly ... and it works just like that even in the car industry ... Ford, Chev, and Honda are all the same. There is a big differance in the m/c side of Honda .... no urgency to get it repaired. Many claims must wait on a Honda rep to stop by for approval which can sometimes take days. That same rep may have to come back 3 or 4 times to give a final OK to repair. When all said and done, its about the same as lawn mower service. Honda just assumes you can borrow your neighbors lawn mower to mow your lawn. For the GW rider, that poor service doen't sit well since "we just want to ride."
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,396 Posts
Exactly ... and it works just like that even in the car industry ... Ford, Chev, and Honda are all the same. There is a big differance in the m/c side of Honda .... no urgency to get it repaired. Many claims must wait on a Honda rep to stop by for approval which can sometimes take days. That same rep may have to come back 3 or 4 times to give a final OK to repair. When all said and done, its about the same as lawn mower service. Honda just assumes you can borrow your neighbors lawn mower to mow your lawn. For the GW rider, that poor service doen't sit well since "we just want to ride."

I disagree Greg.
The first contact dealers have is not with the area Honda Rep,But it's with Techline after the dealers mechanic checks out the bike and it's service manager calls Techline.

"Normally" the only time a Honda Rep gets involved is if major repairs are needed.

I've had several things replaced in as little as a few days.most of the time the dealer just ordered the parts and I went back for the part swap while I waited.

Now if a dealer doesn't get along with or has screwed Honda in the past.By repeated bad diagnosis or the like when they request a warranty repair.
Then I'd expect the area Rep to watch that dealer with a fine toothed comb.

Not all dealers are bad and not all of them treat warranty repairs as the plague.Some will treat their customers the same as a walk in customer because it's good business.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
18,413 Posts
However it is in this town and the surounding towns is what make my business good. Maybe it is just this area or state. Lawn mower quality service is what it is known as here. I also thing much of the problem is the quality of tech.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,924 Posts
I have to say that I took my Wing in for non-functional grip and seat heaters. They ordered parts and it was fixed and ready in a week. It would have been two days earlier but the tech had to go out of town to a family funeral.

The only reason I was charged anything was because they had to sort through so many extra wiring connections that I have becasue of all the various doo-dads that are on the bike...but frankly, I would have charged me for an hours time too. It's a lot of extra crap in the wiring and it was afterall a wiring problem that needed to be traced, replaced and fixed.

The dealer was Coleman Powersports in Falls Church, VA. They are the closest dealer to my house, so I can take a cab back an forth if I need to, although I have been told there are other good dealers in the area.

And I didn't even purchase the bike from them...the subject never even came up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
878 Posts
Slowdog,
You just blew your cover... Now we know that Incommunicado is close to Falls Church.!!!
:22yikes::22yikes::22yikes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,009 Posts
It is common for every sector of the service business to charge the customer a no problem found fee, regardless of whether it is cars, motorcycles, electronics, or lawn equipment. This should not be a surprise to anyone. There are some manufacturers, like Ford, and more, that will cover one or two No Problem Found issues. The dealer bills the mfr for what is referred to as "customer education". Honda makes it very difficult for the mechanic to fudge a claim because they have to authorize all repairs, even simple ones.

Techs can try to fudge a claim to help the customer. But manufacturers track claims, and it is very easy to determine who is cheating. Besides that, if the dealer bills for a phony claim, and later finds the real cause, he is screwed, because he supposedly already fixed the problem. Manufacturers require dealers to absorb redo costs up to a certain time limit, like 30-60 days.

But there are still ways to get burned, and by being smart, you can avoid it.

First, ask the dealer if he will refund the no problem found fee if it is later determined that the bike has a problem? He should agree to it if he is honest. I would go elsewhere if he says no.

Second, and most important. Most states have consumer protection laws regarding charges to customers. Here in Ohio, a servicer cannot charge more than $25 without the customer's approval. Many dealers try to skirt around this law by putting putting a higher fee on the work order, which you approve when you sign the work order.

If the bike is under warranty, do not ok this estimate charge. They cannot turn you away for warranty work by refusing to accept the charge. In this way, they won't be able to charge you more than the state maximum, and it gives the mechanic incentive to find the problem.

In defense of the mechanic however, there is no worse scenario than a no problem found for him. You can't fix a problem that you can't identify. You can't troubleshoot or take measurements on a system that is working. And good mechanics don't shotgun repairs and just guess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,675 Posts
The way Honda works is like this.
"They have no idea if the customers complaint is warranty related or not" That is why you take it to a dealer.
They diagnose the problem,and then call Honda Techline to advise them of what they find wrong with the bike.

Honda Techline will then authorize the repair if it feels it should be covered under warranty or not.

Then it's up to the dealer not Honda how fast that repair is completed.
Once Honda authorizes the repair.The dealer then can order related parts to correct the issue.
The problem (which is not Honda's fault) is dealers just plain hate warranty repairs due to the warranty labor rate they agreed to when then decided to SELL HONDA PRODUCTS.I believe it's somewhere 1/2 of what they can squeeze out of a walk in customer?.
Rocky, I agree with most of your statements but I disagree with the one above. Honda does not pay a fixed warranty rate ($/hr), they adjust the number of hours they will pay for specific warranty work. When I took my bike in for transmission replacement, the VERY EXPERIENCED technician told me that Honda would pay the shop rate for 15 1/2 hours to replace the transmission. He said that even with all his experience he could not replace a transmission in 15 1/2 hours. The 15 1/2 hours was based on having everything right there, working on a brand new bike with no other issues, no interruptions and no preparation time. In actuality mine took about 40 hours.

Knowing this, leads to some recommendations for warranty work:
1) For most warranty work, the service manager will have ask Honda if it is covered. This may seem like a line, but it isn't, Honda must approve a warranty claim, before the dealer will get paid. Challenge the service manager to get a quick response from Honda for a warranty claim. I have found that sometimes the service manager will phone or write in the request and not follow up. This can lead to a long delay.
2) when possible take your warranty work in during the off peak season (not the spring). I took mine in during the winter when no one was getting their bikes serviced and the dealer was happy to do this work to keep their technicians busy.
3) ask to watch or at least drop in to talk to the technician. This is often difficult because the dealer usually doesn't want his technician interrupted. How I managed this was to ask if I could take pictures during the disassembly an reassembly process. The service manager or the dealer will be very reluctant to discuss reoccurring problems or things you can do to prevent future issues, but the technician will be more than happy to explain what he is doing. Mine told me he sees these transmission problems all the time but that my bike otherwise was in great shape for the number of miles and to keep doing what I was doing.
4) ask for the old parts, they will throw these away if you don't ask for them back. This is a minor guarantee that they at least replaced what they said they were going to replace.
5) to control costs the shop will have less skilled (and less expensive) technicians do the simple stuff. I had an antifreeze leak and the radio was installed incorrectly when I got my bike back. Do a walk through with set checklist to make sure they work correctly BEFORE you leave the shop. Send it back for repair if they don't. Unfortunately you have to be prepared to walk away from your bike again. But the dealer doesn't like to have to pay again either for something that should have been done right the first time. It doesn't hurt to say that, by the way.
6) importantly, this is a business. You will get a lot more done if you don't approach it with a chip on shoulder. Yeah, that's your bike, but it is just part of doing business for the dealer and the service manager. And it is just work for the technician. I think this advice fits in the category of don't piss off the cook, because he is the one making the food you will eat. Don't piss of the technician because he gets the same pay whether or not he is working on your bike the first time or the tenth time.
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Top