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Discussion Starter #1
A couple of weeks ago I mentioned that I had an engine noise that sounded like an heat exchanger heating up....some of you suggested engine ping....and that I run a higher octane...for the last four tank fulls I ran 93+ octane.....the noise is gone.....

so now....

What is engine ping....why did it just start to occure after let say 25K miles....? do I need some type of adjustment or part change out due to wear,,,? any help would be appreciated...

Thanks In Advance...

Safe Rides
 

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ping a ling

Ping could have been detonation. Pre-ignition. When the fuel starts to burn before the spark plug does its thing..So why? Could be, dirty fuel injectors, bad gas, bad plugs, dirty combustion chamber, engine timing (ecm, valve adjustment) bad thermostat umm, so whats next? :popcorn: Ill let the experienced souls here walk you through it. I am a new wing owner (sort of) and my bike has not had this problem. Yet..
 

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It is caused from hot spots( dumbed down) such as carbon that heats up like coal and gives the air fuel mix an extra ignition point, excessive lean condition, timing. Etc. When detonation happens at a split second different time then the plug fires it causes a double explosion in the combustion chamber, the vibration from that causes a ping sound.

How's that for a hokie explanation.

I would run some fuel system cleaner such as techron, bg44k or seafoam. I prefer BG products. Try this first. You shouldn't need hi octane fuel.
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+1 on BG 44K and the others. Cleared up the wife's CR-V sluggish throttle tip in at 17,400 miles. I hardly ever drive it but noticed it last week. We only use Chevron or Shell fuel.:thumbup:
 

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Like others are saying it is cause from pre-ignition. There are 3 reasons pre-ignition occures. In all 3 cases it happens from glow that causes gas to ignight before the spark plug sparks. It is the spark plugs responsibility to ignight the fuel and nothing else.

First ... glow from carbon buildup. That is cause from dirty fuel or cheaper fuel and the riders riding style or habbits. More aggressive riding often cures that. Some will go to a premeum fuel to help clean the carbon. A fuel additive helps to but it is not good to get into the habbit of correcting it that way so do this to help blow it out. In second when warm, accelerate it as fast as possible all the way to red-line and immedeatly release the throttle. Do that several times watching your mirrors for the black sh** coming out the exhaust. Doing this changes the velocity and air flow going throught the combustion area and breaks away build up. There is nothing wrong with taking it to red-line. The faster up and back to idle the better the air flow change. You do all that while riding. Then change your riding style by taking the rpms higher before shifting. It is healthy for your Wing.

Second ... fuel mixture is to lean. A lean mixture is a hotter burn in the combustion area. The extra heat is just enough that the valve tips don't cool and glow ignighting the fuel. That is all controlled by the ECM so if there is no FI light, assume all is well. We cannot change that.

Third ... the last thing that causes ping is that the spark plug fire to early. That is called advaced. Meaning that the timing is to far advanced. That too is controlled by the ECM and we cannot change that.

As far as what ping really is .... as in what is the noise that we hear. The noise is actually the sound valves make when gettting slapped closed. Normally they close from spring pressure. But, when any of the above conditions occure, they close from spring pressure, and then when almost closed, a pre-explosion comes along and slaps them closed or blasts them closed ... thus a pinging noise is hurd. Kind of like the valves getting bi*ch slapped at the last second. That's what you are hearing.

If it were my Wing, I would go back to reg fuel (check your Owners Manual ... I beleive it calls for 86 and higher), blast the carbon out as described in "One," add an additive that says on the bottle that it helps clean carbon (only use it one time), and change my riding habbits a little. All of that are healthy things to correct your problem. Also, do that all in that order.
 

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As far as what ping really is .... as in what is the noise that we hear. The noise is actually the sound valves make when gettting slapped closed. Normally they close from spring pressure. But, when any of the above conditions occure, they close from spring pressure, and then when almost closed, a pre-explosion comes along and slaps them closed or blasts them closed ... thus a pinging noise is hurd. Kind of like the valves getting bi*ch slapped at the last second. That's what you are hearing.
I don't think so. Something is gonna get bent.


..louie
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks GoldwingerGreg for the explanation....

....I only have one problem...I am an aggressive rider...always accelerate fast and sometimes to the red line (more times than I should) before I shift...at least once a month have the bike up to high speeds 100+...

...This is what bothers me...I do very little low speed riding and I have ping....so the question is could there be something else wrong do to the fact the ping mainly started when I was driving accross Texas for several hours (other than gas stops) doing 90+ in hot weather....

Thanks....

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Most 1800s that ping is from the compression being raised by excessive carbon on the piston crown and the top of the cylinder. Greg has the correct way to "blow" it out. Higher octane just makes it worse by lowering the explosion point of the gasoline and the carbon continues to build up. At some point the carbon can get thick enough that it will still ping with 93 and then you can only stop it by removing the carbon. Run the crap out of it every now and then and the carbon won't build up. :thumbup:
 

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Ping in spark-ignition internal combustion engines occurs when combustion of the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder starts off correctly in response to ignition by the spark plug, but one or more pockets of air/fuel mixture explode outside the envelope of the normal combustion front.
The fuel-air charge is meant to be ignited by the spark plug only, and at a precise time in the piston's stroke cycle. The peak of the combustion process no longer occurs at the optimum moment for the four-stroke cycle. The shock wave creates the characteristic metallic "pinging" sound, and cylinder pressure increases dramatically. Effects of engine knocking range from inconsequential to completely destructive.

Lower octane fuel has a lower ignition temp and can "ping" more readily than higher octane fuel.
 

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I don't think so. Something is gonna get bent.


..louie
I agree, it's not from valves slapping the seats. I've never heard this in the 31 years I've been professionally and non professionally being a mechanic. Where is your documentation explaining this? I am interested in reading about valve slap causing the ping sound. Thanks


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Ping

You may have the same problem I think I have!
You should pull all sparkplugs and check color.
I have an 02 gl1800 with 109k miles now and my #6 cyl plug is very black on the thread face, all others are normal. I believe that my #6 ingector is running rich, and then the oxgen sensor sees rich exhaust, and leans out all three cylinders on that side. Now I have two cylinders running lean and resulting in spark knock, ping. Running 93 octain dosn't help-still pings at idle.
This winter I plan to replace #6 ingector. Note I changed plugs, with no change and have this problem for last 20k miles.
just my thoughts, Howard...
 

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Everything that goes ping, is not ping. I think Grag and Techdude have the ping pretty well covered. Greg hhas certainly had teh heads off a few bikes and shouldhave a good handle on how much piston crown carbon builds-up. If the engine is using oil, maybe a valve stem seal is seeping and that makes oil/carbon build up on stem side of valve. I also say stick with regular gas other than using high octane to help diagnose the problem. Exxon/Mobil, Chevron/Texaco, and Sunoco brand fuels may have effective agents in them to help reduce the deposits. I think it was Fred that mentioned the heads are not difficult to remove to inspect for fouling.

prs
 

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Thanks GoldwingerGreg for the explanation....

....I only have one problem...I am an aggressive rider...always accelerate fast and sometimes to the red line (more times than I should) before I shift...at least once a month have the bike up to high speeds 100+...

...This is what bothers me...I do very little low speed riding and I have ping....so the question is could there be something else wrong do to the fact the ping mainly started when I was driving accross Texas for several hours (other than gas stops) doing 90+ in hot weather....

Thanks....

Safe Rides
I can be the quality of todays fuels too with all the ethinal.
 

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GL1800 Doctor
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I think the biggest problem is Honda richening up the low throttle maps to "fix" their screwed up cooling system issues. I think if you pull the plugs on every 1800 since the 03 model year, most if not all will be blacker than they should be if it was a normal running engine. Does anyone have a bike that has brown plug electrodes?
 

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The shock wave creates the characteristic metallic "pinging" sound, and cylinder pressure increases dramatically. Effects of engine knocking range from inconsequential to completely destructive.

Lower octane fuel has a lower ignition temp and can "ping" more readily than higher octane fuel.
You might be right about the shock wave creating the ping. My information comes from auto shop classes in the 70's and back then they didn't have a way to really know other then educated guesses. Today, it woundn't surprise me that they can capture the shock wave on a "cylinder camera" and see that it happens at the same time as the ping.

I never knew reg gas was a lower ignighting fuel. I always knew reg gas burns quicker and less complete, and primium is a slower burning but more complete burning fuel ... thus more power.
 

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FWIW - never had ping. Due to the recent degradation in the quality of fuel at the pump, I started running 89. Result was a smoother bike, more power (but barely) and increased fuel economy. It costs me roughly 50¢ extra per fill up but I get a $3 rebate in increased mileage. You do the math.

They once used lead to prevent "knock" and I personally am glad they stopped using that.
 
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