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Does anyone want to guess what the inside of this engine will look like ???
 

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Does anyone want to guess what the inside of this engine will look like ???
Compared to equipment we run in the business, that filter looks pretty clean. I believe the overall cleanliness of the inside of the engine would have more to do with how the engine was run. Short stop driving, did the engine get warmed up before shut off, long distance traveling? BUT,....we want to know,
 

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Well in theory, if the filter was not breached and remained intact, clean air continued to enter the engine. The difference being the volume of clean air, which means the engine would be running a little lean (I think that is the correct term). Lean running would seem to lead to incomplete combustion (as compared to the design requirements). Incomplete combustion would seem to mean that more impurities would be present in the engine. Incomplete combustion can cause clogging and damage to the valves in the engine.
 

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Well in theory, if the filter was not breached and remained intact, clean air continued to enter the engine. The difference being the volume of clean air, which means the engine would be running a little lean (I think that is the correct term). Lean running would seem to lead to incomplete combustion (as compared to the design requirements). Incomplete combustion would seem to mean that more impurities would be present in the engine. Incomplete combustion can cause clogging and damage to the valves in the engine.
In a modern engine the computer in an attempt to maintain a stoichiometric ratio of air to fuel would inject less fuel. The engine would suffer a lack of power.

But to get to Greg's point - as the piston moves down into the cylinder on the intake stroke a restriction on the intake passageway caused by a dirty/partially clogged air filter would cause an increase in the vacuum (similar to placing one's hand over a vacuum cleaner nozzle) thereby sucking small dirt particles through the filter, particles that wouldn't normally get sucked through with a clean filter. I'd like to see what Greg has seen in a Goldwing engine. I've seen other vehicle engines that suffered from lack of maintenance, specifically oil and filter changes. The internal parts of those engines were coated with thick, black sludge.
 
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IronMan
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How often was oil / filter changed ? You can change air filter every month and motor be full of sludge !
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Wait, What did you say Greg? Once again I have been stopped in my tracks by your galley of beauties in the avatar. Nevermind me...
So many more coming soon ... stay tuned :)
 

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Well in theory, if the filter was not breached and remained intact, clean air continued to enter the engine. The difference being the volume of clean air, which means the engine would be running a little lean (I think that is the correct term). Lean running would seem to lead to incomplete combustion (as compared to the design requirements). Incomplete combustion would seem to mean that more impurities would be present in the engine. Incomplete combustion can cause clogging and damage to the valves in the engine.
Actually, trapped particles live in an extremely violent environment. Particles stack up behind, and forever push, wiggle, beat-up-on, get sucked on the one in front. Basically trapped partials live in a Cat 5 hurricane environment with all particles in front and behind all trying to rip through the filter element. All are forever wiggling trying to rip through the filter element ... like sperm trying to fertilize an egg. As the miles rack up, particles begin to rip through. As that happens, a pathway is created for others to follow. Larger ones rip the path open more.

They enter the combustion chamber, an explosion occurs, and that CAT 5 hurricane is now a CAT 100, and some get blasted past the rings to the internal part of the engine. As this continues, the cylinder walls and rings begin to get sand-blasted. All though this engine is probably to young to be an oil burner, it would have become one much earlier than most all other 5th gens.

Not changing an air filter at least every 12k on a 5th gen is like telling the Doctor that smoking only 1pack a day is good.

What I expect to find is easy to predict ... a filthy engine on the inside much dirtier than the one shown. Notice that in the picture that the oil can't even drip free from the contamination.

FOR EVERYONE ... THE CHEAPEST AND SUREST WHY TO MAINTAIN YOUR WING IS TO DO IT ACCORDING TO YOUR OWNER'S MANUAL, AND USING HONDA PRODUCTS TO DO IT WITH. IT'S SCIENTIFICALLY TESTED AND PROVEN OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
I would like to see independent scientific test results if they exist. No disrespect to you Greg. I'm just a skeptical New England Yankee..
And no disrespect either ... I really mean that. But on the other hand, thank you for thinking that way. The repair industry relies on skeptics, owners that cannot afford too, and ones that come up with their own maintenance requirements. Unfortunately, your Wing is engineered and designed by really smart people called engineers. Basically, engineering is based on science and those same engineers are the ones providing every owner with the maintenance requirements for a long lasting, reliable product.
 

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Agree with your word about good engineering as long as the good engineering does not get all wrapped up with the bean counters. Example, the 737 MAX. Gotta say, GWs are almost bullet proof for many miles as long as simple maintenance is observed, just gotta watch those 'old age' things.
 

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Here's one for you Gregg:

Can you over do it? Like if one pill makes you feel better, then two should work even better!

I'm an oil changing fanatic
! The book reads every eight thousand mile oil/filter must be replaced!! I myself could never ever go that long of a distance before replacement... I have changed oil/filter with less then 1,500 miles on it cause I was going on a long trip, I usually replace every 2,500 -3,000...Because it makes me feel better... Last month I took my bike too New York (it had only 1,500 on it before trip/but I replaced it anyways) this week I just got back last night, I went to northern Maine, (875 miles R/T) But I changed it before heading out..... So other then spending money, can over maintenance become a problem?
last month I replaced my air filter, I was freaked out cause it was totally loaded with M&M's.... My bike is ALWAYS garaged, washed before every ride, and everytime it rains I will sit in my garage and give her a total wax job.... I change plugs, every 5,000 miles, replace radiator fluid every season.....Before I triked her out I replaced rear gear fluid 80-90wt twice a season...

Ronnie
 

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Here's one for you Gregg:

Can you over do it? Like if one pill makes you feel better, then two should work even better!

I'm an oil changing fanatic
! The book reads every eight thousand mile oil/filter must be replaced!! I myself could never ever go that long of a distance before replacement... I have changed oil/filter with less then 1,500 miles on it cause I was going on a long trip, I usually replace every 2,500 -3,000...Because it makes me feel better... Last month I took my bike too New York (it had only 1,500 on it before trip/but I replaced it anyways) this week I just got back last night, I went to northern Maine, (875 miles R/T) But I changed it before heading out..... So other then spending money, can over maintenance become a problem?
last month I replaced my air filter, I was freaked out cause it was totally loaded with M&M's.... My bike is ALWAYS garaged, washed before every ride, and everytime it rains I will sit in my garage and give her a total wax job.... I change plugs, every 5,000 miles, replace radiator fluid every season.....Before I triked her out I replaced rear gear fluid 80-90wt twice a season...

Ronnie
In a word, yes... IMHO
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Here's one for you Gregg:

Can you over do it? Like if one pill makes you feel better, then two should work even better!


Ronnie


Maintenance is all about paying forward. For example, when the valves are adjusted, and the valves are reset to center specs, for the next 32,000 mile period, the engineers have calculated out that under worst case riding conditions, the most any individual valve train will wear to cause the valve lash to change in either direction is by 0.001" of an inch. They also know this. So long as the valve spec does not go outside of it +- spec., no valve/engine damage will be done.

Other than cost, and environmental issues (using Earth's resources), there is everything right about over maintaining. On the flip side, there can be everything wrong with not at least doing it per Honda's Maintenance Schedule. Examples that I read about here all the times are braking issues from owner's not replacing their brake fluid as required (rear brake lockup). Coolant system not being serviced (rising temp gauges). Battery problems from not having them tested every 8k (will not crank over, or cranks but will not start). And, ones who brag about how they got 60k+ out of their air filter (their Wing will be an early oil burner) ... LOL ... good for them !!!

Most issues others' write about are often self-inflicted caused from something that was added, or by not correctly taking proper care of what they already have.

Good for you ... it sounds like you are taking good care of what you already have :)
 

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As Greg stated above, wasting environment resources i.e., throwing away perfectly good oil, and serviceable items way beyond the basic maintenance requirements set forth in the owner's manual. BTW, Ronnie is a friend of mine and this comes up frequently whenever we ride together. I usually ignore it but felt like "jes mashin his tatters" as the TV Colonial Sanders has said, a little this time! >:)
 
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Discussion Starter #19
The best maintenance is performed when needed. This of coarse is different for every owner. The maintenance manual is a guideline produced by inputs from engineering AND marketing. Don’t fool your self thinking it’s the bible.

"When needed" is so correct, and it is also the cheapest way too. On big equipment, it can be far cheaper to send samples to a lab for testing and monitor say oil that ways. And Honda's maintenance schedule is as you say, "not a bible." However, it is the best guide we have.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Update ... here are pictures of what the insides look like. The first one is its dirty air filter.
 

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