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Discussion Starter #1
A lot of people have blamed Honda for the problems concerning the GL1800 frame.

My question is, why hasn't anyone considered that maybe Kaiser might be at fault?
Kaiser wins award

Honda doesn't manufacture the frames, they just assemble them.

A few questions to ponder:

Did Kaiser train anyone from Honda on how to weld the 1800 frame?

Did Kaiser assist in the design of the GL1800 frame?

Is Honda working with the frame manufacturer to discover why the frames are cracking?

Does Honda set the specs on the alloy content of the frame?

Does Kaiser still make the frame for the GL1800?

It seems to me that we should re-think putting the blame for the GL1800 frame issues solely on Honda and start questioning the manufacturer of the components of the frame, also.

I'm not defending Honda, but I think that some of you guys should expand your thoughts a little bit.

Granted, Honda should take responsibility for these problems, but there is more to this than just blaming Honda.

Is this strictly an engineering problem, or does the manufacturer of the frames have a problem with quality?

I am curious to know where Honda stands in relation to the frames coming from Kaiser. There has to be some sort of communication between the two companies.
Are they both working on the issues? When they recover a cracked or broken frame, how does Honda investigate this? Do they turn it over to Kaiser for evaluation?

Is the NHTSA on Kaiser about this issue? Do they even check into the supplier of the frames, or do they just put the responsibility on Honda?

Is Honda looking into finding another manufacturer for the GL1800 frame?

There might be a lot more to this than just an engineering snafu.

Let's ask more questions, rather than throw out blame and point fingers.
 

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Just last Sunday I went to a seminar at my Honda dealer, the main issues to be discussed were the over heating and the frame issue. The Honda rep told us that there was no change what so ever in the frame or the frame material. The only change was to the welding procedure. He had a frame section with him and showed the old weld and how it was ground out and re-welded. Hope this helps, we need to keep faith in our Honda's.
 

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Another thought on my post above. Honda buys the frame parts from Kaiser, I believe. Honda does the welding to assemble the frame. Honda is taking full responsability for the problem. I've never heard that Honda has ever denied that they had a problem. It seemed that way at first but it takes time to put somthing as massive as this frame recall together.
 
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Recalls happen everyday with all sorts of products, I wouldn't be surprised if behind the scene Honda has worked out some sort of deal to share costs of the frame recall with the company that designed the frame.
While not as visable as Ford-Firestone recall there hasn't been any deaths associated with the frame recall, not even any injuries that I'm aware of. If there were and al sorts of lawsuits would develop and then I'm sure we would hear more about the 'other' company.
 

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Why question the manufacturer of the frame? Honda probably doesn't produce 25% of the bike, but they are responsible for all of their suppliers and the parts they supply them with!
 

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Last I knew Kaiser was in chapter 11 Bankruptcy. You will not be a able to get much out of them if anything.
 

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If I have the story streight;

Honda of Japan designed the 1800 for Honda of CA

Then Honda of CA contracted with Honda of OH to build it to the specs from Honda of Japan.

Honda of OH contracts with various suppliers for materials like the frame parts and builds the frame in house per specs from Honda of Japan.

Honda of OH sent their existing welders to Japan for training in welding the aluminum used in the 1800 frame by Honda of Japan to their specs.

Honda of CA then sells the completed bikes to the local Dealers and is only a marketing group.

It would seem to me that Honda of OH is 100% responsable for the frames that may break from faulty welds while Honda of Japan is 100% responsable for those that break from faulty design.

The problem is how do you determine with clarity if the failure is due to a design spec fault or faulty welding process. At this point is seems that Honda has admitted that the first series of Frame Failures resulting in a Massive Recall was due to a Process Failure in OH. The current failure cause has yet to be isolated.

Cross your fingers that this series of Frame Failures is isolated to a few faulty welds from OH and not a whosale Design Fault from Japan that may involve all 1800's to date.

Honda of CA's job, should they accept it, is to keep their customer base and Dealers informed about the fault analysis in a timely manor. Not likely, but it would be a step in the right direction to restore trust.

Jerry
 
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