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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone know of anyone who has ever managed to crash their Wing while decelerating from 45 to 35 with their hands off the handlebars?

All of the purported Class Action Lawsuits claim the bike is dangerous and can make you crash. I have never heard of anyone who had actually crashed.

Just wondering. Honestly not trying to start a fire.
 

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If it had happened you would have heard about it here first. I have never heard of it happening so I am assuming it has not happened and never will happen. The way I see it. If a person is riding with thier hands off the handlebars and the wobble starts and the person does not have enough brain cells to make the decision to put at least one hand back on the bars to stop the wobble then continues to ride hands free with wobble until the bike crashes. Then that person is doomed to die a stupid death eventually anyways and probably will take an innocent bystander out with them when they go.
 

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Haven't heard of one either.

I did have a set of new Metzs on a 1800 that would develop a slow speed tank slapper in a heartbeat! That was a tire problem, not a bike problem.

Max, what makes a new GL1800 wobble out of the crate? It wasn't forks, wheels, tires, OEM head bearings, and the swingarm was retorqued. :x That was on a new '04 and I'm going through it again on a new '06. :twisted:

Most 1800's aren't real wobblers. If you have to look for the wobble, it's not a wobbler. LOL... When they shake with hands on the bars at any steady speed between 30-50mph, that's the wobblers I'm talking about.

TIA......
 

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I can't imagine anybody stupid enough to ride without thier hands on the bars long enough to ride a wobble to the ground.. Of course I've been told I underestimate the degree of stupid in the world...
It's a fishing expedition by yet another scumbag law firm capitalizing on stupid.
 
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I don't ride with my hands off the bars under any conditions, and anyone who does is a fool and deserves to crash, wobble or no wobble.

That class action suit is frivilous and will go nowhere. More legal BS that costs us all money. How much of the cost of your Wing do you think Honda has to factor in to defend itself from this crap? LOTS!

Push for tort reform before the bloodsucking, ambulance chasing lawyers destroy our country.

My $.02

Ride safe.
 

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IBTrike said:
I don't ride with my hands off the bars under any conditions, and anyone who does is a fool and deserves to crash, wobble or no wobble.
Here's my $0.02. That's the most asinine comment I've seen on this board. You obviously lack good riding skills if you're so affraid to take your hands off the bars. You would learn a great deal about balance if you rode no-handed, and that enhances riding skills.
 

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I think I should sign up for the lack of skills club. I rode a bicycle with no hands but it did not tip the scales at 900 pounds. On Interstates I will ride with 1 hand on and alternate to rest, but never no hands. I thought Max's post was meant to be sarcastic.
 

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i hear all this wobble with hands off the bars. i thought wingers were the safe ones. i have had two wings, don't know if they wobble. i don't take my hands off the bars. sounds unsafe to me. even though its at a slow speed, thats when i got hit, at a slow speed.

just had to get that off my back, just ranting. sorry
 

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I doubt the Class Action Suit will go anywhere. If you read up on automotive suits there is always
a specific cause of the defect. Reading all these posts and other boards, nobody has come up with
a fix that works every time to stop the wobble. There are numerous combinations that seem to help,
but none that a judge or jury could rule on. Somebody will have to do all the engineering studies on
the entire design of the 1800 to prove that Honda knew what the actual cause was. If Honda knew
how to correct the problem, I think that by the 2006 model the problem would have been secretly
corrected to reduce the cost of repairing all the production units sold. I do not think Honda knows
how to correct it without a costly redesign that would add to the selling price, possibly pricing the
1800 beyond the available market. (would you pay $5 or $6 K more?) The new prices are already
going to make me keep my 2003 longer.

I worked for a large company that often found engineering "miscalculations" that could lead to a
major recall or this type of a suit. Nobody is perfect. They would correct the problem on the next
production run and deal with the existing ones if a customer complained. If the situation got bad
enough they would then go back and repair the existing machines as a recall. No company wants
a jury to start awarding large settlements.

Honda has a reputation to maintain, I really think they want our business. Remember, Honda is much
bigger than only GL1800’s. I think the GL is still the best touring cycle made, even with a few
problems, period. I agree with Red that some seem to wobble from the factory, mine did not, and
the fix has not always been the same. If it happens to you, keep a COOL head and work with the
dealer and factory rep. I have bought a lot of bikes from Honda in 40+ years and found that Honda
is a good company to work with. If you are that unhappy with the product, buy something else,
there are a lot of choices. I got sick and tired of HD and all their problems, yes they usually fix them
but look at what you get and what you pay for one. They make a BIG profit, just look at their
balance sheet.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
towmoter said:
I thought Max's post was meant to be sarcastic.
Towmoter,

I can assure you, I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. I really did want to know if there was anyone who had ACTUALLY crashed. Obviously, the liability aspect is of great interest to me.

If there were several hundred documented cases of wobbling wings that threw their owners off then that would be very serious. In fact, I would bet that by the time it got to a dozen, this internet forum would know about it.

"Wobbling wing" is one of the top 5 discussed topics in the tech forum, and while there is a valid safety concern by the owners, it would be taken more seriously by the manufacturer and dealers if people were actually crashing.

I am actively researching this matter as most people that come to our shop for suspension upgrades are hoping that wobble goes away as a byproduct.
 

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you mean you are suppose to keep your hands on the bars?

I have been putting the bike on cruise and texting on my Blackberry.
 

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Well....call me crazy, but I ride with my hands off the bars....what's the big deal. My bike has never wobbled at any speed. I set the cruise at 70, tell my co-pilot to stay very still, and then I usually massage that tennis elbow I can't get rid of on my right arm! I steer with my legs of course, and everything is fine. Elbow feels a LOT better too. Wings are very stable at 70 mph....no problem with hands off.
Now if I had a wobble I suspect that would alter things a bit!

I cannot imagine a wing wobble causing one to go down.....but there are some scary riders out there, guess it could happen. 8)
 

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it's just another lawyer trying to make a buck at the expence of others, these guys should have a class action suite against them for being land sharks.
 

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I've driven hundreds of GL1800's and the wobble problem differs from bike to bike.
Some are so stable... it's scary. Not for the fact that it doesn't wobble no matter what I would do... but for the fact that so many others DO wobble and some bikes I can feel a wobble even with the hands on the bars.

I, like others, have gone the gambit on trying to 'fix' the wobble.
All Balls help on the vast majority that have a 'hands off the bars' wobble. In a small percentage it had no help whatsoever.

Tire wear and tire pressure is also a major contributing factor. I've had a few bad experiences with new front tires causing a wobble when the bike didn't have a wobble before.

I've found unbalanced front fork oil caused some problems; mispositioned forks in the triple clamps; forks that were incorrectly assembled (by another shop) also caused problems.

I've found a front wheel that was bent due to an accident with a curb that I thought would have caused a wobble did not.... so there are other factors that are in play that are the root of the problem.

The one bike that I've ridden that had Max's suspension on it (front and rear) was rock solid... had no wobbles at all. It was stiffer than I like for a GL but the customer was happy with the results and that's what was important.

Just my $.02

Ray

PS I'm scheduled to be a Traxxion this next Monday to go through their training.... see you then Max.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hi Ray,

I think we already have a couple of people out there in the Wild West lined up for you. It is "Far" even by Wing Standards from the Rockies to the Smokies.

:)
 

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Max McAllister said:
I am actively researching this matter as most people that come to our shop for suspension upgrades are hoping that wobble goes away as a byproduct.
It did with my bike, my bike is rock solid with or without my hands on the handlebars. I did the upgrades for a better suspension and all the benefits that a better suspension offers, eliminating the decel wobble was just icing on the cake.
 

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Roadie said:
It did with my bike, my bike is rock solid with or without my hands on the handlebars. I did the upgrades for a better suspension and all the benefits that a better suspension offers, eliminating the decel wobble was just icing on the cake.
Did you have the tapered head bearings installed before the suspension upgrade? Did it still wobble after the install of the bearings or did the suspension change get rid of the wobble? How many miles when you tried each fix?

TIA.....
 

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="Red"
Did you have the tapered head bearings installed before the suspension upgrade? Did it still wobble after the install of the bearings or did the suspension change get rid of the wobble? How many miles when you tried each fix?
TIA.....
Red
While I had my bike apart waiting for my suspension to get back from Traxxion, I went ahead and installed the All Balls. To tell you the truth, I wasn't going to install the All Balls, but I was also doing the Traxxion upgrade to a friends Wing at the same time as I was doing my bike and he wanted them installed in his bike, so he went ahead and bought two sets of the All Balls and twisted my arm to install them in my bike.

I don't believe the All Balls is the cure for the decel wobble. Sure if you torque the bearing tight they will damp out the wobble in some or most cases, but I have found with my bike that the torque setting of 25ftlbs for the All Balls that most here say to use was too tight for my bike and cause my bike to wander a bit. I wonder if over torquing the bearings is the reason so many have had luck with just the All Balls. I settled at 21 ftlbs at this point and will try going a little lower this winter when I start working on my bike again, just to see how the bikes steering feels with the lower torque setting.

I do believe the decel wobble is caused because the stock front suspension is sinking too low in it's fork travel and one of the problems that causes is the steering rake/trail are changed or steepen enough to make this bike more wobble prone. Nearly every Wing I have measured, the forks have sunk 3 inches with the owner just sitting on the bike. The forks are nearly bottom out when riding this bike down the road. Raising the front end up with some springs that can support the weight of this bike, which also increases the fork travel, makes a big difference with this bike. I know a lot of the members here disagree with my thinking on this issue and that's ok, but I have put over 9000 miles on the Traxxion suspension so far and I'm not riding a Wing that wobbles :)
 

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Max,

My 05 did have the 25-40 MPH wobble. I never came close to crashing from its existance.

I did the install of your prodcut front and rear last January and followed your suggestion about the AllBalls and Kury brace install. 16,ooo miles later not one wobble at any speed or even a hint of handling problem.

Knowing what I know now, I would have paid more for the wing (or future wings) if your equipment was factory installed.

My wing is vastly improved.

Chuck
MBD
 

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Wobble cured...

I have an 04 with 8k miles on it when it began to develope the deceleration wobble... There is some very minor scalping in the original front tire (the original rear is still installed).. The suspension is stock.

I just returned from Haps Honda in Sarasota after having tapered steering head bearings installed as well as Progressive (progressive) fork springs installed (w/ 15w fork oil). The wobble is gone, not even a hint of it (even with the original front tire).. The suspension seems slightly stiffer but comfortable. 2.5 hours labor plus parts....
 
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