[pscan1800]

Hello All,

My '10 Wing with just 600 miles on it is feeling a bit under the weather. Last Thursday, I started feeling a wobble/vibration that felt like my front tire was out-of-balance - wasn't there in the morning, but was there for the ride home - I can feel it at all times regardless of speed. When I got home, I check both tires and their pressures - everything was fine. I rode to work Friday - vibration was still there. Called my local Honda dealer - explained what it was doing - told me to swing by on my way home. They took it for a test ride - confirmed the issue - told me to bring it back Saturday. Saturday, they swapped out and balanced both tires and re-torqued the steering head bearings - vibration still there - ended up leaving the bike with them and walking home. On Monday they called Honda - tech line said they did everything to help diagnose it and the bike would need to be seen by the District Service Manager. I picked it up 2 nights ago and given the warning before I left 'do not let go of the handlebars - the vibration may cause you to lose control'. The DSM is supposed to see it this week.

I rode it today to my GWRRA chapter meeting and had several people, including one who took it out for a test ride, tell me it was the stock Dunlop tires and that I should pay to put Bridgestones on it. The one who took it out on the test ride said it was the worst he's ever felt and was a safety hazard. After the meeting, I went back to the Honda dealer, and the service manager said it couldn't be the tires, as they put a new set of Dunlops on it. I think maybe it might be the steering head bearings, but everyone I talk to said yes, it could be, if I had 18-20k miles on the bike, not 600.

Any idea what might be going on?

 

[31261]

Dunflops are world famous.

Did you watch them change out the tires or just accept they say they did.

 

[Pigeon Roost]

Perhaps the swing arm bearing races were not fully seated and during your ride, they did seat; leaving inadequate pre-load or even free play. Thus your bike has a waggle.

prs

 

[Nigelf]

Could it be a ballance weight has fallen off? and they didnt do a real dynamic balance of the wheel? did they change both tyres front and rear? did they check the rear wheel nuts to make sure they were tight and the rear was securly fitted?

PRS has a good point as well.

just my pennies worth.

Nigel

 

[TXREALTOR]

Mine wobbled right out of the box. The tech was right about hanging on to the bars. I don't know how bad it is, but if all was done as they told you a fork rebuild could be in order. It stopped mine exept for very predictable situations. Try 38 pounds or a little more in the front. While you are doing that, take 5 minutes and loosen the pinch bolts, retightning them in the proper sequence per the service manual. There is an extra step in there that a lot don't do, it can make a difference.

Best of luck.

 

[wingd1800]

I had same issue with my 2010 with 3400 miles on it and the dealer wouldn't do dick. said waranty only covers defective parts and they can't find a defect in the D250 so I was SOL even pleaded my case with 1 800 Mother Honda and they gave me sh*t as well. So I swapped out the crappy D250s for the stones w/dyna beads and it got 200% better. Now I have close to 10k on the stones and the rear is just starting to sing to me and the front has a little wobble but nothing like it was, but they are wearing fine. It's real funny that Honda has dumped the D250s. The 2012s have stones on them.......there's your sign!!!!

 

[Too Tall]

My personal feeling after fixing the wobble with a Bridgestone 709 is that the GW is very sensitive to front tire defects. A perfect tire on the front will not wobble. I would ask the dealer to change tires until the fine one that works. I wouldn't let the Honda dealer experiment with your bike, they'll screw something up that's not broke.

 

[jerrieric]

Tires are not the issue in my uneducated opinion. If they were then we would all go to the tire that did not wobble and I am sure Honda would go to that brand. Some will say that is why the '12 went to Bridgestones. That is bull, Honda went to BS because of a lower negociated price. If you review all the posts on tires, they all have the same issues. I have 58k on my '06 and the last set of E3's developed an uncontrollabe wobble after 2k. So I thought is it time to buy a 2012 or go to another tire brand? When I had the last E3's put on I asked the service manager if I should go to another brand. I know the service manager from doing business with him for 15 years. He said everyone that has gone to another brand always comes back to Dunlop. They had other brands in stock but I took him at his word. I just had the Full Monty done yesterday and the uncontrollable wobble is entirely gone. Same tires different suspension. You figure it out. I have no skin in this issue. But when I see Honda has not corrected minor things such as trunk chaffing why would I think they would fix the wobble?

 

[pscan1800]

Thanks for all of the replies:

Kit Carson: I did not watch them but can verify visually that the bike has different stock tires.

Pigeon Roost: Good suggestion to check - I will follow-up with them on this.

Nigelf: Dealer said no, all weights were on it. Both front and rear tires were swapped and balanced. They said all nuts were secured.

TXREALTOR: I've been running 41/41 - dealer lowered it - did not change the wobble/vibration. I'll look into your pinch bolts suggestion.

wingd1800: I'm calling Mother Honda tomorrow and give them 2 choices - fix my bike or give me a new one. Ohio has a very comprehensive lemon law - I've already forced one auto manufacturer to buy-back a lemon - Honda can be #2 if they can't fix it.

Too Tall: I'm leaning to having Bridgestones put on it regardless of if the tires are at fault.

jerrieric: Point taken.

I will keep this thread updated with what happens.

 

[Too Tall]

As I mentioned, I cured my wobble for a $100 Bridgestone 709. A lot of others have done the same, but some haven't. But in reality, and of course my opinion and, I don't like it any more than the next guy but it's really of little to no consequence. There's a 10 mph range or less that it exists and unless you take you hands off the handlebars, you won't know it's there. And, once you come to the realization that it's a tire problem, you just move on. Or, you can stiffen up the steering system and mask the problem. Sometimes $3000 worth of traxxion upgrades don't fix it. A bad tire is a bad tire. Personally I think the tire makers are to blame for sloppy quality control. You can see the problem easy enough when you do a static balance and the tire balances perfect but when rotated 180 deg. It's now needing more or less weights. You just can't get it spot on. I'm sure a lot of you have seen this. I once blamed it on the distance collar thinking it was moving around causing this problem but I was wrong.

This is just my opinion, I may be totally wrong as I often am, but this is what I believe until I see something that convinces me otherwise.

 

[Dandy Dave]

<Sigh> Here we go again... opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:

If you search on wobble, I'm sure you can find about a bazillion threads on the issue.

That said, Goldwings wobble, but they usually don't fall down. Some are egregious wobblers right out of the box. Some (well, most) are sensitive to tire wear and balance. Almost all stock bikes develop the wobble as the tires wear. This may be because the stock suspension, especially a worn stock suspension, cups the tires, and a cupped tire will tend to wiggle a little as it goes down the road. Add this to a tendency to wobble and you get.... Wobbles!

My suspicion is that the parts tolerance sometimes puts all the tolerances one way or the other.
All parts have an acceptable limit of how accurate they have to be to pass inspection. A part doesn't usually measure / weigh / spec out to the exact design parameters. Usually, some are out a bit one way, others are out the other way, and it all kind of averages out. Once in a while (and I've heard of one other like yours.. horrid wobble from day one) you get all the parts on either the high or the low side, and they cumulatively put the assembly out of tolerance, even though every part is acceptable. All suspensions have harmonic forces that can induce a wobble somewhere in the speed range. I had a Kawasaki H1 widowmaker that would go into a tank slapper at about 180 kph in a turn. Threw me off once. Trust me, I'd MUCH rather have the bike designed so that the wobble happens at about 35-45 and itsn't too violent.

That said, there are a number of things that can contribute to wobble. Tires are a biggie. I've seen non-wobblers with full monty Traxxion that started a wobble when new tires were installed. It was for sure the front tire. Different tire, problem gone. Or, the rear can affect the front of the bike
Suspension: Honda's front suspension is not the same on both fork tubes, kind of inadequate for a 900 lb bike, and designed with an eye towards a plush ride, not handling, stiffness, or stablity. The triple tree has no gusseting or webbing to stiffen it, and it kind of looks like that may have been a concious decision by Honda engineers. The whole front end can be kind of flexy, and that doesn't help.
The stem bearings are ball bearings, and sized just about right for a mountain bicycle. Or maybe a 125cc bike. Certainly not a 900 lb behemoth. Usually, replacing these ball bearings with roller bearings stops the wobble. I've never seen a case where it didn't, but I've never had a bike in the shop that was as day-one out-of-the-box wobbler. The roller bearings provide better support, and tightened to 23 ft lbs of torque, give a little drag that damps out the wobble. The good news is, the bearings only cost about $45. The bad news? they are buried in the middle of the bike, and it's about 4 hours labor to get there and change them.

I would suggest that you try taking a couple of wheel / tire assemblies from a known non-wobbler, put them on your bike and see what happens. Both front and rear.
By all means make them check the swing arm torque settings. Unlikely that that is the issue, but that's still one of the best ideas I've heard in a long time.
If it still wobbles with new wheels and the swing arm within specs, changing out the the stem bearings with (almost certainly) fix the problem. You will NEVER get Honda to agree to warrantee that. If they do, they have set a precedent, and opened themselves up to every Goldwing owner from 2001 to now being eligible for the the same upgrade. And, I'm sure that they will fight that to the death. Maybe you can get the dealer to contribute the labor if you buy the bearings.. $45 would be a cheap way out here.

Good luck, keep us in the loop.. I'd be really interested in what your outcome is

=Dave=
GWBBA #9
rocketmoto.com

 

[Ed Z]

Bought my 06 with 16K on her... Had front wobble... The Metzlers I got the bike with were trashed in 2k miles (pressures were maintained)... Checked torque on the stem bearings and did the pinch bolt procedure, still had wobble... Put the tapered roller bearings in the steering and all was good ever since...

Your entire front end needs to be gone through to isolate just what is out of spec... I tell ya, the quality control on these wings is nothing short of shameful...

 

[SLOWDOG]

I think some of the posters are confused about your problem. Unlike the common deceleration wobble around 35mph, which is often fixed with new or even just a different tire(s), or tapered headset bearings, you seem to have a consistent shaking or vibration at any speed.

A set of Bridgestones might solve the problem, but it sounds like you have an issue that became obvious with very little wear on the tires. You would not be the first person to have two bad sets of Dunlops in a row, but I would be looking at how everything is put together. Make sure all the axle spacers are in the right place and not screwed up. Remember that All-Balls just MASKS the problem, doesn't actuall fix it, and it maybe something serious that reall needs fixing.

Put the bike on the center stand and use a small car style scissors jack under the front of the engine to get the front wheel off the ground. Get that front tire really spinning. I'd be looking for any obvious problem with the rim like it being out of round slightly.

I'd also be checking the rear wheel carefully too. Many people have found that it ended up being a rear wheel that was the cause of their problem.

You didn't say whether it does the same thing with the clutch in or coasting at speed in neutral. Good to eliminate any engine related issues.

Have you checked the fluid level in your final drive? A small number of people have found that the final drive oil was extremely low on bikes straight from the factory. A couple of people have found issues in the final drive/drive shaft problems that first appeared to be tire related.

I would be looking at ANYTHING that turns/rotates. Does the wobble change at all at different speeds? Especially as you coast in neutral from 70 down to zero? If it changes or slows down as you slow down while coasting, that pushes my attention to stuff beyond the clutch and transmission. I'd even hit the kill switch and listen to see if I could isolate any sounds that might be a clue.

There seem to be a lot of things that can masquerade as tire problems and your technician may not be that great at diagnosis. You may nneed to get a second, or even third opinion. You are in GWRRA, so ask your fellow members if they have a Wing tech who they really admire that might take a look.

 

[Lab Rider]

In my 2010...had the wobble...put in all balls bearings and traxxion system...wobble went away....just put on a new set of tires the other day...no wobble...went out for a ride...hit one hugh pot hole....now have a wobble...not sure yet the problem...bent rim..?....damaged tire....all weights counted for...but did you may be damaged the tire on a good pot hole or curb.....?

 

[pscan1800]

I wanted to give everyone an update as to what has been going on with this. The dealership had the bike the last week in August. Here are the service notes from the visit:

* Replaced rear wheel and tire - problem still occurs.
* Replaced front tire, mounted, and balanced - problem still occurs.
* Tightened steering head bearings - problem still occurs.
* Replaced rear tire, mounted, and balanced - problem still occurs.
* Checked rear rotor runout; in spec - problem still occurs.
* Techline stated to check frame for cracks around shock mount areas - checked frame, swingarm, linkage and shocks - no cracks.
* American Honda district service manager states the unit operates properly and he stated that the preload was set to 5 and should be set higher - should be set based on weight of rider - may start at 15 and go up if needed.

This is crazy. The dealership says the problem still occurs, but the DSM says the bike is fine. I contacted corporate with this, and was told that a case manager would call me back in a couple of days (which they didn't). What in the $%^& does preload have to do with this???? This was simply an excuse by the DSM to not address the issue.

Last Thursday, I took the bike to a member of my local GWRRA chapter who has worked on a ton of Wings. After riding it, he is convinced its the head bearings - he's going to look at the front wheel bearings first, but the whole thing reminded him of a bike he worked on not too long ago which the guy rode it, brand new, off the lot - never made it home - rode it back to the dealership complaining of the vibration - was told "all Wings do that" - he put up with it for 6000 miles before tapered bearings fixed it.

This issue, which should be 100% taken care of by Honda, will cost me between $50 and $250 to be resolved.

 

[revrunt]

the All-Balls treatment will probably need to be done no matter. Not sure I agree with those who say this only masks the problem. It helps/solves the issue on many bikes. At worst, I would rather have the problem masked than obvious, I guess...??? To assume that Honda will do an all-balls fix is completely unrealistic unless you are enough of a crusader to go to a class-action suit. Something as illusive as this is really hard to prove however. Honda knows that...:twisted:

The only thing it seems has not been checked that I would suggest would be the swing arm bearings. Don't think they would cause it, but may not be dampening it if they are slightly loose.

Keep chasing and documenting it, thay HAVE to fix this eventually. Sorry for your frustration. Hope you get it fixed.

 

[jerrieric]

Sure is not fun whether your bike is new or old. I don't know what the solution is but I went for the Full Monty and All Balls on my '06 58k. My wobble with the last set of tires at 35-42 was so uncontrollable that I know I would crash if I did not keep my hands on the bars. Tires looked like they had no wear issues, using dyna beads for balancing. After the suspension upgrade and 1,500 miles later, still no wobble with the same tires and beads. I would go the All Balls first since that is the least expensive try and not a throw away if that does not cure the problem. Maybe you can work a deal with the dealer to provide some of the labor if not all of the labor. I would be irate if I had a new bike with your problems and not getting a fix or bike taken back and a new one given. Good luck and let us know how this works out for you. :wrong:

 

[Too Tall]

I am going to start checking the lateral run out next time I install a front tire. I think this could be a cause for a wobble. Just a though. Also the radial run out could be the problem with some tires being difficult or impossible to balance.

 

[jstancampiano]

My personal feeling after fixing the wobble with a Bridgestone 709 is that the GW is very sensitive to front tire defects. A perfect tire on the front will not wobble. I would ask the dealer to change tires until the fine one that works. I wouldn't let the Honda dealer experiment with your bike, they'll screw something up that's not broke.

Had a new brigstone wobble and just thought it was the bikes well documented problem. When I wore it out, I replace with another stone and surprise!! wobble gone. There were no other changes made and tire is still good 5k miles later. Too Tall is right, these bikes are very sensitive to bad tires!!

 

[jerrieric]

Had a new brigstone wobble and just thought it was the bikes well documented problem. When I wore it out, I replace with another stone and surprise!! wobble gone. There were no other changes made and tire is still good 5k miles later. Too Tall is right, these bikes are very sensitive to bad tires!!

OMG!! Bridgestone with a wobble. Don't tell the Bridgestone loyalists. Thanks, just proves all tires are created equal!