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Wobble

2K views 29 replies 15 participants last post by  Pigeon Roost 
#1 ·
I changed my D250's to E III's and now notice the famed wobble! At 4000 miles, Honda says the steering head bearings need to be adjusted and are a normal wear item, so they don't cover the cost under waranty?

Thinking I might as well change out the bearings in hopes it will be the solution!

Would like to hear from those that have experience with this

Thanks
 
#2 ·
Is that 4K miles on your bike or just the E III's? Probably an out of round or improperly balanced tire. If it's the bike I doubt the steering head bearings are worn out at only 4K miles. On the otherhand installing the highly regarded All Balls steering head bearings or another tapered bearing assembly would not be a bad move anyway. This is a very controversial topic that produces a tremendous amount of debate with a lot of strongly held but differing opinions, so get ready. I won't say mine doesn't wobble under any condition because thats just too unbelievable for some others to swallow. :p Terry
 
#3 ·
Bike only has 400 miles. Got it new in May 2006 as a leftover. Had some vandalism on the original tires and since the change, I get a wobble at around 30-35MPH.

Didn't have it with the factory tires!
 
#5 ·
ALL BALLS BEARINGS $40, LABOR $250
WORTH IT? EVERY PENNY.

Your bike should not wobble. Even though the Dunflop D250 does not grip as well as others,it rarely wobbles. Maybe this is why Honda uses it as OEM
 
#6 ·
Let me try to understand: No wobble, swap tires, then wobble. Logically, how could it be anything other than the tires? Nothing else - including the bearings - has changed.

It got to be either the tires or an incorrect installation/balancing, doesn't it?

I'm a computer programmer. When I have a program that was working fine, then something changes and it quits working fine, the first thing I look at is what changed.
 
#7 ·
I agree with Red, up to a point. If it did not wobble before the tire change it should not wobble after. The problem may be with the tires themselves (seems VERY odd to me that there could be so many "bad" tires out there for the GL1800), or the installation of those tires on the rims. The tire realted insall variables are balance and the quality of the bead seating job at either or both front and rear. The quality of the wheel install job back onto the bike at either front or rear can be considered too.

There is a rather straight foward and simple test for the steering head bearings. If they are loose at only 6,000 miles then that is NOT normal wear, but rather an indication tha the bearing races were not full seated to begin with and have settled in with use. A search of this site should reveal teh simple steering head bearng test procedure as outlined in the service manual. The test requires a spring scale such as a trigger pull scale and some means to support the front end off of the ground. The OE bearings should be good as new at onl 6,000 miles.

The tapered bearings evidently work very well at covering up the symptom of the underlying problem, but the problem will still be there if that matters to you. If you rely upon teh dealer to do your service work, then you are their mercy regarding the quality of wrenching and maybe the taper bearing cover-up plan would be the best way to go. If you do your own wrenching, there is quite a bit you can check in a precess of elimination -- I would start with visual inspecion of bead seats and out of round of both tires, then balance and installation.


prs
 
#8 ·
Wobble Solution

Hi Fooddum:
Skydog here.
I have an 03 and had the wobble you speak of. I tried retightening (Honda service techs) the front triple tree bearings a lot. To no avail.

The solution for me was to bite the bullet and have the tapered bearings installed. Seems Honda chose to put in round bearings and the race (Thing that holds all the balls in place) is made of plastic.

Once the new tapered bearings were installed all wobble went away.

The 03 wing is my daily vehicle and used for long trips as well. It has over 40K on it now and the bearings were a welcome but recent addition.

Someday before somebody gets hurt I hope Honda owns up to the front end wobble and fixes it.

Scott aka Skyydogg69@Gmail.com
 
#9 ·
tires

Foodum01,

I was running Bridgestones and had no sign of a wobble.

I rode out West and needed a set of tires on the road, I couldn't get Bridgestones, I had a dealer instal Metzler 880's. With 700 miles on the tires, they wobbled so bad, I had to have them replaced. That dealer also told me that the steering head bearings needed tightening.

I went to a different Honda dealer who checked out the bearings and said they were not the problem. He put on a set of E3's and the wobble was gone.

I maintain air pressure at 41 lbs front and 42 lbs rear, no cupping, no noise and no problems for 14, 000 miles.
 
#10 ·
William Anzik said:
Let me try to understand: No wobble, swap tires, then wobble. Logically, how could it be anything other than the tires? Nothing else - including the bearings - has changed. It got to be either the tires or an incorrect installation/balancing, doesn't it?
You're not suposed to think logically or even think for yourself, William. Just place your faith in testimonials. It's so much easier.
fooddum01 said:
Thinking I might as well change out the bearings in hopes it will be the solution!
Hope is not a plan.

Stu
 
#11 ·
Pigeon Roost said:
The problem may be with the tires themselves (seems VERY odd to me that there could be so many "bad" tires out there for the GL1800), or the installation of those tires on the rims. The tire realted insall variables are balance and the quality of the bead seating job at either or both front and rear. The quality of the wheel install job back onto the bike at either front or rear can be considered too.
I can tell you for a fact, that in my 25 years in the MC biz, no other model of bike gets "bad" tires, except for the Goldwing. I find that odd.

Dunlop, Metzler, Pirelli, Michelin, Avon, Bridgestone, Maxxis, etc, etc, etc, all make tires that go onto every model, size, and type of bike and work great, but when any one of those companys puts a tire on a Goldwing, somehow, about 50% of them are bad. :?

As for how they are mounted, that's basically 1% from impossible to screw up. You fill the tire with air, and it goes "SNAP!!! SNAP!!!" when each bead seats. It is loud enough to scare people who aren't expecting it. That's it. You aren't going to do a better job by repeating that several times.

I have personally mounted thousands of tires on bikes, and watched tens of thousands get mounted on racing wheels.

I have been in tire tents at World Superbike, AMA, WERA etc. Two snaps is all that is required to know the tire is mounted properly.

For balancing, again, no dramatic process is required. If you question the bike shop's computer wheel balancer, have the tech stick the axle through the wheel and put the wheel on a pair $9 jack stands. If the wheel is in balance, it won't move. THAT'S IT.

Go to Daytona and watch how they balance tires for bikes that have 2X the HP, weigh 1/3, and go 2X the top speed of a GL18. They have a stand that costs $200, some axles, and some wheel weights. There are no computer wheel balancers at a race track.

Do you think a poorly balanced tire is more critical at 40mph or 190mph?

No one ever goes to the trouble of dismounting and remounting the tires to get it exactly positioned so that you use the least amount of wheel weights. That isn't what causes bikes to wobble.

If you are going to these lengths to make your GL not wobble, you are grasping at straws.

Different tires do have different characteristics. This guy's steering head could very likely need adjustment, and the stock tires mask it. A different brand may just let the symptom exhibit itself.

We have found at least 7 factors that make a GL have the decel wobble. One of them can cause it, but typically, it's a stack up of several factors.
 
#12 ·
Re: Wobble Solution

Skydog said:
Seems Honda chose to put in round bearings and the race (Thing that holds all the balls in place) is made of plastic.
This isn't true... someone didn't explain this to you properly. The bearings are ball bearings. The races are hardened steel. There is no such thing as plastic steering head bearings.

The ball bearings are equally positioned around the race by a plastic cage. It has nothing to do with the bike wobbling, or the bearings being bad. I have never ever seen the plastic cage wear, or fail.

The plastic cage makes it fast and easy to assemble the steering head.

In the old days, the balls floated loose in the races, and you had to fill the entire race with balls. You used grease to hold all of the balls in place while you assembled the steering head. That was a PITA!
 
#13 ·
Re: Wobble Solution

Skydog said:
Someday before somebody gets hurt I hope Honda owns up to the front end wobble and fixes it.
We did a survey here on this forum recently, and not only could not find anyone who had ever crashed from the wobble, we couldn't find anyone who had ever even HEARD of anyone crashing because of it.

With 60,000+ GL1800s on the road, and with an average of 50,000 miles per bike, that's roughly 3 BILLION miles logged on wings without anyone getting hurt for "The Wobble".

I don't think anyone at Honda is going to loose sleep over this. They will tell you to keep your hands on the bars. :wink:

Do I think the wing should wobble, even under decel conditions between 45 and 35 mph when the driver takes his hands off of the handlebars? No, I don't think it should. It wouldn't cost Honda much, if anything, to wobble-proof the wing, but until it's a safety issue, it isn't likely to happen.
 
#15 ·
Stu_O said:
[quote="William Anzik":7kmllm8k]Let me try to understand: No wobble, swap tires, then wobble. Logically, how could it be anything other than the tires? Nothing else - including the bearings - has changed. It got to be either the tires or an incorrect installation/balancing, doesn't it?
You're not suposed to think logically or even think for yourself, William. Just place your faith in testimonials. It's so much easier.

Stu[/quote:7kmllm8k]Sorry, lost my head for a moment. :lol:
 
#16 ·
Well I never had the wobble on my 04 with the dunlops or the bridgestones but at 24k i put metzlers on and there it was. Replaced the front tire and no difference. Gonna put hte all balls in and see. I dont want to blame the tire anymore. I feel that it is in the steering and just covered up by certain tire brands myself.
 
#17 ·
Max McAllister said:
I can tell you for a fact, that in my 25 years in the MC biz, no other model of bike gets "bad" tires, except for the Goldwing. I find that odd.
You might want to change that to GL1800 Goldwing, not Goldwing. Past Wings had very little trouble with tires.

What did Honda do to the GL1800 to make it too tire sensitive? Was this problem created because they stiffened the frame too much on a 900 pound two wheeler?

Never owned a new wobbling Goldwing in the last 26 years either. At least not until the GL1800 came along.
 
#18 ·
Max, not to disagree with you on the tires, but I was told by an Avon engineer that they think the gl1800 should be running on bias tires but Honda demanded radials. I have no idea if that would make any difference but was what I was told.

I do know that my 06 came out of the box with the wobble and when I changed to Avons wobble gone and been gone for over 7,000 miles.
 
#19 ·
Dive Master said:
Max, not to disagree with you on the tires, but I was told by an Avon engineer that they think the gl1800 should be running on bias tires but Honda demanded radials. I have no idea if that would make any difference but was what I was told.

I do know that my 06 came out of the box with the wobble and when I changed to Avons wobble gone and been gone for over 7,000 miles.
That would make sense... but since it's possible make a radial tire for an 18 wheeler that pulls 80,000 pounds, I would suspect some company should be able to reliably make a suitable radial tire for 1400 pound two-wheeler.

:wink:

I want somebody to bring me a bike that wobbles with your hands ON the bars. That's one I want to fix.

:)
 
#21 ·
Max McAllister said:
I want somebody to bring me a bike that wobbles with your hands ON the bars. That's one I want to fix.

:)
You could have one if it was summer or at least warm. I don't go above the freeze line too far in the winter. Bars shake at any speed between 35-55. Worse at a steady 45 mph. This is the second new one I've had like this. This isn't the hands off "weenie wobble" you have to look for. It's with hands on. Steady speeds, accel, or decel. Above 65 mph the bike is as smooth as I have ridden.

Taking my '06 back in Monday. Maybe they will put another set of forks on it. I replaced the tires with Stones at 800 miles. No Change! :( They replaced the frt rim, forks and head bearings on my '04. I also changed tires 3 times. That did nothing to change the shake.

If you're around 1800's long enough Max, you'll see a few of them.

Do I notice it more than others would? I'll guarantee the answer is yes. I've ridden Wings forever and my left arm has been yanked out of place 3 times in the last 6 years. That shoulder lets me know when something isn't just right! LOL....
 
#22 ·
Red said:
Max McAllister said:
I want somebody to bring me a bike that wobbles with your hands ON the bars. That's one I want to fix.

:)
You could have one if it was summer or at least warm. I don't go above the freeze line too far in the winter. Bars shake at any speed between 35-55. Worse at a steady 45 mph. This is the second new one I've had like this. This isn't the hands off "weenie wobble" you have to look for. It's with hands on. Steady speeds, accel, or decel. Above 65 mph the bike is as smooth as I have ridden.

Taking my '06 back in Monday. Maybe they will put another set of forks on it. I replaced the tires with Stones at 800 miles. No Change! :( They replaced the frt rim, forks and head bearings on my '04. I also changed tires 3 times. That did nothing to change the shake.

If you're around 1800's long enough Max, you'll see a few of them.

Do I notice it more than others would? I'll guarantee the answer is yes. I've ridden Wings forever and my left arm has been yanked out of place 3 times in the last 6 years. That shoulder lets me know when something isn't just right! LOL....
Bring me your wobbly wing.
 
#25 ·
wobble

I HAD THIS SAME PROMBLEM ON TWO GL1200'S, A HARLEY FATBOY, AND MY 03 GL1800. EACH TIME IT WAS THE TORQUE ON THE HEAD BEARINGS. I FEEL THAT MUCH OF THE CONFUSION COMES FROM AN ODD WEAR PATTERN ON THE TIRES DUE TO THE LOOSE BEARINGS. SO WHEN YOU TIGHTEN THE HEAD BEARINGS AND LEAVE THE WORN TIRE YOU WILL STILL HAVE PROBLEMS. MY GL 1800 I BOUGHT THE SOCKET AND TIGHTEN THE HEAD BEARINGS TO ALLOW A VERY SLIGHT DRAG,AND INSTALLED A NEW E3. I AM NOW READY TO CHANGE MY FRONT TIRE (WHICH I DO MY SELF) AND IT HAS 22K MILES ON IT.
I BELIEVE THE ANSWER IS TO TIGHTEN THE BEARINGS ENOUGHT TO HAVE A SLIGHT DRAG AND BE SURE TO START WITH A NEW TIRE SO THAT YOU DO NOT EXPERIENCE PROBLEMS FROM THE ODD WEAR ON THE OLD TIRE. GOOD LUCK!
 
#26 ·
Stu said: "Hope is not a plan."

prs sez give that man a cigar! What a philosopher!

Max, you need to visit the VTX baord if you want to see more wobble complaints and bad tire complaints; est the 1300s. My VTX is rock steady and so is my GL1800. My VTX has lousy fork spings too.

For the record; I balance on a simple gravity stand. I have seen mismounted GL1800 tires where the little tell tale lines around the sidewalls "ride" up out away from the rim and assemblies that leak air between the tires and rims. Max does not see it because he is in an envirionment where the folks doing the work know and care about what the H377 they are doing. Shade tree guys may not know the tricks and the kid at minimum wage in the cycle shop is too damn lazy to clean rims and go fetch another container of tire lube. Max is right; its nuts to slip tires around the rims to get the sweet spots matched perfectly on a balance stand before adding the minimal amount of weights, but my only defense is that I am nuts. :a13:

I sure don't want Red picking out my next wing for me; if it weren't for bad luck he'd have no luck at a-tall! :lol: I think his dealer is hiding a wet sock in each tire before mounting.

Just how cold can it be between Florida and Georgia?

prs
 
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