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Name Tag Guy
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Discussion Starter #1
Got home from the Wiki Ride in West Virginia on Sunday night after putting 1200+ flawless running miles on the bike. Pulled into the garage and shut the bike off, still with about 1/3 tank of gas. Next morning, went out and turned on the key, lots of crank, but wouldn't start. Immediately checked all the usual culprits..., kill switch, side stand, reverse switch..., but all was in order. Still no start.

Next step was to log in here and read all the threads about Wings mysteriously not starting, then went back out to the garage to check a few things. Turned on the key, battery at 12v, head the "click" from the fuel pump, pressed the starter and the battery dropped to 11v, and the thing was cranking so well I thought the whole bike was going to start spinning. Battery was in good shape. Then did the 10-second check on the FI light..., no error code displayed. Still no start.

Didn't get a chance to play with it yesterday (Tues) and today I was planning on pulling a plug to see if there was any spark, and go on from there. However, last night one of my know-it-all neighbors suggested I might have a vapor lock. Yeah, yeah..., what does he know about Goldwings? So, this morning, just to be able to tell him he was wrong, I popped the gas cap and turned the key. Damn thing fired on the first crank. Maybe he DOES know everything.

So, it wasn't the battery, and it wasn't some sort of sensor, and it wasn't a whole bunch of other things that kept it from starting..., it was just a simple vapor lock. Go figger! :shrug:

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Got home from the Wiki Ride in West Virginia on Sunday night after putting 1200+ flawless running miles on the bike. Pulled into the garage and shut the bike off, still with about 1/3 tank of gas. Next morning, went out and turned on the key, lots of crank, but wouldn't start. Immediately checked all the usual culprits..., kill switch, side stand, reverse switch..., but all was in order. Still no start.

Next step was to log in here and read all the threads about Wings mysteriously not starting, then went back out to the garage to check a few things. Turned on the key, battery at 12v, head the "click" from the fuel pump, pressed the starter and the battery dropped to 11v, and the thing was cranking so well I thought the whole bike was going to start spinning. Battery was in good shape. Then did the 10-second check on the FI light..., no error code displayed. Still no start.

Didn't get a chance to play with it yesterday (Tues) and today I was planning on pulling a plug to see if there was any spark, and go on from there. However, last night one of my know-it-all neighbors suggested I might have a vapor lock. Yeah, yeah..., what does he know about Goldwings? So, this morning, just to be able to tell him he was wrong, I popped the gas cap and turned the key. Damn thing fired on the first crank. Maybe he DOES know everything.

So, it wasn't the battery, and it wasn't some sort of sensor, and it wasn't a whole bunch of other things that kept it from starting..., it was just a simple vapor lock. Go figger! :shrug:


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Brian,

Just wondering about the weather when that happend... was there a severe drop in the barometer? was it hot and humid?? Also is the gas cap something that can "fail" is it vented ?

Thanks..

Matt(BCNV) :thumbup:
 

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i sure don't know what the trouble was but i don't think it was vapor lock
 

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Name Tag Guy
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Discussion Starter #4
Just wondering about the weather when that happend... was there a severe drop in the barometer? was it hot and humid?? Also is the gas cap something that can "fail" is it vented ?:thumbup:
Hey Matt...

You had me worried for a minute. When I saw your post, I was afraid it was going to be something about a penguin blowing a seal on a gas cap... :wrong:

The weather was fairly hot (for this area) when I got home..., about 90F at 8:00pm. In the morning, it was still about 85F, but could have been a bit hotter in the garage..., but not too humid. I dont think the gas cap is vented..., I believe it's a sealed (damn..., seals again) system. To be honest with you, I dont think I've ever had a vapor lock on a bike, and the last car was a 2-year-old 1968 Ford Cortina. :lol:

Now, having said that, maybe some other part of the fuel system failed in some manner, and allowed the vapor lock to happen. It's something that happens so infrequently, you just never think about it.
 

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Name Tag Guy
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Discussion Starter #5
i sure don't know what the trouble was but i don't think it was vapor lock
I didn't either..., till I released the gas cap... :lol:

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Name Tag Guy
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Discussion Starter #6
If the gas cap did it, then you have another problem. The cap is not vented, which means your vapor canister system probably has a pinched or clogged hose or the solenoid valve is not working like it should. How high do you fill the tank? If too high, you could have filled the canister with liquid gas and it couldn't breathe right.
Could be..., but at least now I can ride it to a dealer to get it checked out properly. :lol:

I filled it just like always..., just to where the gas comes into the neck of the filler. Plus, I stopped and started a couple of times after my last fill up.

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Hey Matt...

You had me worried for a minute. When I saw your post, I was afraid it was going to be something about a penguin blowing a seal on a gas cap... :wrong:

The weather was fairly hot (for this area) when I got home..., about 90F at 8:00pm. In the morning, it was still about 85F, but could have been a bit hotter in the garage..., but not too humid. I dont think the gas cap is vented..., I believe it's a sealed (damn..., seals again) system. To be honest with you, I dont think I've ever had a vapor lock on a bike, and the last car was a 2-year-old 1968 Ford Cortina. :lol:

Now, having said that, maybe some other part of the fuel system failed in some manner, and allowed the vapor lock to happen. It's something that happens so infrequently, you just never think about it.
LOL

I should have posted the penguins!!

Next time I have a 'No Start" the FIRST thing I will do is open the gas cap.... I bet it has happend more than once, and it's cheaper that a Voltmeter!!!!

Thanks..

Matt(BCNV) :doorag:
 

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I am asking....I do not know. But doesn't the gas cap have a one way vent in it to keep the tank from collapsing, or is that function handled by the evap. system? Just curious.
 

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I would worry about it starting being just a coincidence. Did you try to start it this morning before loosening the gas cap? My trike would not start for several days then one day it started like new. Mine was a bad pulse gen. but you should have gotten a code for that.
 

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Had a similar problem with my 02. No start condition after bike was parked for a little while. Thought it was sensor. No codes. Thought it was battery. Replaced battery and it still happened. Once after sitting overnight in garage, once after sitting in driveway for about 4 - 5 hours and once after being parked for about 1 hr. Fuel situation varied in each case. In each case bike cranked and cranked with no start. All switches etc tested good. All of a sudden, it starts. Once it wouldn't start after 15 mins, then it starts. Never found reason for problem. Temps were varied from hot to mild in all cases, so vapor lock etc didn't seem to be the case. Still don't know why and keep fingers crossed every time I try to start it. The "no start fairy" might swoop down at any time and land on the bike....
 

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Vapor Lock TRADITIONALLY has been fuel going from liquid to vapor IN THE FUEL LINE (usually a "heat soak" problem where the motor has been shut off for a short period --- 15min to 1 hour and the stagnant fuel in the line get heated by engine heat until it boils--- changes from liquid to vapor or gas )between the fuel pump and the carburetor, throttle body, or fuel injectors. It is very rare for it to happen in throttle body or fuel injected vehicles due primarily to the fuel pressures involved. MOST throttle body or fuel injected systems have a fuel system pressure between 30-60 PSI. A carburetor system may be as low as 3-10 PSI.

Now, on to the bike SUDDENLY starting after removing the fuel cap when it wouldn't start before leads me to surmise that there was a partial vacuum in the fuel tank--- this would prevent the fuel from entering the fuel pump. If the fuel don't enter the fuel pump it don't get pumped/pressurizing the fuel delivery system.

Only way the tank can fail to vent is for a problem in the venting system to occur--- bad solenoid valve, cap vent, vent line to vapor canister-- all depends upon the design of the systems.
 

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the tank is vented through a small hose on the top under the top shelter, has the top shelter been removed lately ? maybe the vent hose got kinked when re installing the top shelter ? i guess that could be the problem but that is not what i would call vapor lock
 

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Name Tag Guy
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Discussion Starter #13
Here is another thought. It might be something as simple as a bad battery, and giving it time to rest allowed the battery voltage to recover enough for it to start.
Did you actually read my original post? From the first crank on Monday morning when it wouldn't start, to the final crank today when it did, the battery was 12v at rest and 11v under load (it's always kept on a Battery Tender in the garage)..., and was just about spinning the bike off the center stand. The only change to the entire scenario was to pop the gas cap.

Why is it that the experts cant realize that sometimes it's not some convoluted and complex diagnostic, and often expensive process that solves the problem..., but something really simple.

I posted this to provide a simple possible solution that is worth trying before breaking out all the manual and all the special tools..., and not a debate about how good or bad the evil battery might be.

K.I.S.S..., it just might save you some time and sweat. :roll:

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the tank is vented through a small hose on the top under the top shelter, has the top shelter been removed lately ? maybe the vent hose got kinked when re installing the top shelter ? i guess that could be the problem but that is not what i would call vapor lock
:agree:
 

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If'n ah kud git ma krystal ball t' werk, I wud tell ya wut was da matter wit it. Doubt vacuum in tank, but that can be verified with a test ride and attempt to restart. Prolly got hod dog residue in gizmolater.

prs
 

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I hope you never experience the problem again, but if you do, transient faults are the hardest to correct.... you cant troubleshoot when the fault is not there. and they invariably pop up when they cause the most heartburn (Murphy's law)

Please post to this thread if you experacne the problem again.
 

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If'n ah kud git ma krystal ball t' werk, I wud tell ya wut was da matter wit it. Doubt vacuum in tank, but that can be verified with a test ride and attempt to restart. Prolly got hod dog residue in gizmolater.

prs


Coffee is all over my monitor..THANKS..:coffee1:


later..Randy
 

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I would think 12volts is too low, especially since you keep it on a tender. My wing reads 12.5 after sitting all night without being on a tender.

So....that said, I once had a pc800, and the vent hose kept coming off the fuel cap; so I being dumb, tidied up the fuel compartment and put a rubber plug over the vent stub.

Sure enough, rode it 60 miles, shut it down, and a bit later tried to start. So....guess it could be a plugged vent hose, but like the man said, never heard of vapor lock on a FI vehicle. Don't even know if vapor lock is possible on a FI vehicle.

Anyway, please keep us informed if you get new information.

TIM
 

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Brian's bike had to pass some "Canadian Gas" before starting in the morning.

I wonder where it got that from?

John
 
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