Wooble
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For wobble, the ball bearing set can dampen a little bit within its pre-load range. The bearing sets are tensioned to where a pull gague tied to the fork at left and or right has about 3 pounds of reistance on it befor the fork moves. That is not much and it is tedious to set that way, mostlyu folks just crank the nut down to the initial spec and call it good. There is a tapered bearing available in the aftermarket that will apply a good bit more dampening to the steering. The real cause is not the steering at all, but some vibration from tires, wheels, drive trane or such that is being transferred to the steering.
prs
prs
New tires made the condition worse!
Just got off phone with dealer and the mechanic says the wooble is gone, but asked for a explaination on "adjustment" of the bearings.
Either way it is not covered by warranty so i'm out a few hundred bucks!:22yikes:
Tim
Just got off phone with dealer and the mechanic says the wooble is gone, but asked for a explaination on "adjustment" of the bearings.
Either way it is not covered by warranty so i'm out a few hundred bucks!:22yikes:
Tim
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3,341 Posts
You answered my question. I doubt the tire made it happen, especially since it is gone now. Probably didn't reinstal the tire to spec. There is a step they often leave out, and I have to agree it sounds goofy, BUT momma Honda felt it important enough to put it in the service manual so it must have merit.
As for the head bearings, good is good enough. Overtightening can cause premature wear, and make the bike handle funny. Some put in roller bearinfgs and swear by them, But I would venture they either fix most of the problem when taking the old out and puting the new in, or just cover up said problem.
So,,, to answer your question, yes you are being fed a line.
Hope they got it fixed,
Cheers
As for the head bearings, good is good enough. Overtightening can cause premature wear, and make the bike handle funny. Some put in roller bearinfgs and swear by them, But I would venture they either fix most of the problem when taking the old out and puting the new in, or just cover up said problem.
So,,, to answer your question, yes you are being fed a line.
Hope they got it fixed,
Cheers
Tires were installed by a independent mechanic that used to work at a Honda dealer and I have all confidence he installed front wheel correctly. And I even questioned him on it and he showed me the mark that is to be aligned as per Mother Honda.
On old tired wooble was at decel between 40 to 50 miles an hour. On new tires it got worse and is at all speeds during decel.
Tim
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3,643 Posts
If the wobble bothers you now, your in for a long haul. I had all balls put in and that helped for about 1k but wobble is back. Not all the time but at around 40 it may or may not wobble. Same tires, so I am stumped at this point. Had the Full Monty done but the tires had about 3k on them at that time. No noticable cupping. Full Monty stopped the wobble but 2k later it wobbles intermittently around 40. I have another year of riding on these tires. I'll be damed if I am going to replace them now when they have about 8-10k left on them. GoodLuck but it may just be something you have to live with.
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3,341 Posts
Don't bet is was done correctly. The "mark" isn't mentioned in my service manual and I have never seen anyone look for a "mark". Not denying it is there or important, just saying. The step I was referring was rocking the front to set the axle. I have only seen it done once, and when I asked him about it, he told me to read a sevice manual. LOL
Tires can be installed and damaged, they can be bad to start, stuff happens, pressure can be a contibuter, but still sounds like you were taken advantage of. You may need a fork rebuild, a rear tire, a good check to be sure the rear tire is correct, a whole laundry list of things. I do know the fork rebuild got rid of the factory wobble. The only time it does it now is when my front drops below 37 PSI, or the step I talked about is ommited. No I don't know what it does, other than "seats the front axle". Very predictable. All MC's will do it at some point, it is the nature of the beast, you may never ride where it "wants" to act up, and you may not want to ride there. The wing gives a wobble, some give tank slappers.
If it goes in without a problem, or a small one, and comes out with a big one, someone did something wrong. That is how I feel about it anyway.
Cheers
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528 Posts
I am simply stating my experience with the wobble on my 2010 Goldwing. I used to think the wobble was or could have been a result of the head bearings bearings but in my case there was absolutely no play in the steering whatsoever. The tires looked okay but after very careful inspection, I could see barely noticeable flat spots on the tires which would be a precursor for cupping. It started at around 6,000 miles on the Metzelers or about 18,000 miles on the bike itself. I had to gently run my hand along the tire to feel it. It made more sense that because the wear in the tires was even throughout the tires circumference, the wear was not even side to side. What was happening was that as each flat spot passed, the bike's steering would find that contact spot which was slightly off center then move to the next. Basically shifting from left to right. As soon as I replaced the front, the wobble disappeared.
So the cupping doesn't need to be noticeable, it could be anything to do with how the tire is tracking.
So the cupping doesn't need to be noticeable, it could be anything to do with how the tire is tracking.
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7,603 Posts
You had a wobble, now cured and it's not covered by warranty. It's time for a call to Honda Customer Service: 866-784-1870, Monday - Friday 8:30 - 4:30 PST.
update
Well, wooble is gone for now. It was explained to me that the mechanic had to tighten the pre-load on the stearing head bearings. Supposedly the front end/forks slopped back and forth with no "drag" in steering. You need preload or drag in turning steering from lock to lock. I just wonder how long this cure will last, have 23000 now so I suppose I can expect to spend another $200 in another 2 years.
Still say it should be covered under warranty. Think I will be calling Honda Customer Service tommorow and complain, for all the good it will do.
Havent decided if I'm going to have the All Balls I bought to have dealer put in, installed by a third party at the end of the riding season. Would think tapered bearings would be a better bet at tightening to preload drag on steering.:shrug:
Tim
Well, wooble is gone for now. It was explained to me that the mechanic had to tighten the pre-load on the stearing head bearings. Supposedly the front end/forks slopped back and forth with no "drag" in steering. You need preload or drag in turning steering from lock to lock. I just wonder how long this cure will last, have 23000 now so I suppose I can expect to spend another $200 in another 2 years.
Still say it should be covered under warranty. Think I will be calling Honda Customer Service tommorow and complain, for all the good it will do.
Havent decided if I'm going to have the All Balls I bought to have dealer put in, installed by a third party at the end of the riding season. Would think tapered bearings would be a better bet at tightening to preload drag on steering.:shrug:
Tim
The dealer is correct on one account. Loose stem bearings will cause wobble on any motorcycle if they are loose. There is not supposed to be any axial play in the bearings at all.
Based on the wording of your post, I am assuming you are not aware that stem bearing inspection is a routine maintenance item that the owner should check periodically on ANY motorcycle, not just the Goldwing. I usually have to adjust mine within the first 10K. You do this at your expense, even under warranty. Honda does not cover maintenance under warranty, so you will be wasting your time complaining to them about it.
The loose bearings will solve the problem of wobbling with new tires. But as they wear and start to cup a little bit, the wobble will return.
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7,603 Posts
Been riding and wrenching since 16, now 67. Factory head bearings, if properly seated and properly torqued should not require "maintenance" for many miles!
50K+ on an Ultra(as an example), still passes the "swing test" and there's no fore/aft play in the forks.
If yours needed tightened @ only 23K, IMHO they were not "done" correctly when the bike was assembled.
Make your call, point this out to Customer Service.
50K+ on an Ultra(as an example), still passes the "swing test" and there's no fore/aft play in the forks.
If yours needed tightened @ only 23K, IMHO they were not "done" correctly when the bike was assembled.
Make your call, point this out to Customer Service.
Put new metzlers on last year,,, had the wobble bad... It was the front tire.... I always put on 1 new tire at a time,,,, ride few miles to see if wobble is there.......... If not,, I install the other new tire..... That is why I know it was the front tire.
I order a new 709,, installed front tire and wobble was gone.... 1 month ago,,, the 709 was wore out...... I still had the Metzler front on my shelf, so decided to try again.... I reinstalled,, done new balance on tire and WOW,,,, no wobble in front with same tire installed.......... This tells me that tire did not cause wobble. I guess sometimes the wheel does not get seated to axel quite properly,,, or balance not perfect....
If I get another tire that wobbles,,, I will break it down and mount and balance again.... When I mounted the tire the 2nd time,,, I did not put dot at valve stem,, I moved 180 degrees to other side,,,, Worked for me and now I can finish wearing out the front Metzler.... I do mount and balance own tires....
I order a new 709,, installed front tire and wobble was gone.... 1 month ago,,, the 709 was wore out...... I still had the Metzler front on my shelf, so decided to try again.... I reinstalled,, done new balance on tire and WOW,,,, no wobble in front with same tire installed.......... This tells me that tire did not cause wobble. I guess sometimes the wheel does not get seated to axel quite properly,,, or balance not perfect....
If I get another tire that wobbles,,, I will break it down and mount and balance again.... When I mounted the tire the 2nd time,,, I did not put dot at valve stem,, I moved 180 degrees to other side,,,, Worked for me and now I can finish wearing out the front Metzler.... I do mount and balance own tires....
you show me in blask and white where it says the adjusting the stearing head bearings in the maintainance schedule and I'll buy into your theory.
I've been riding for 35 years and this is the first bike that I've had this issue with.
You must be a Honda Rep.!!!!
Tim
The post was supposed to say inspect, not adjust. I had actually edited it last night, but it did not save for some reason.
Check the very last item in your maintenance schedule. Stem bearing inspection is supposed to be done every 8,000 miles. It is also listed in the MSF TCLOCS inspection procedures. Obviously you wouldn't do any kind of adjustment unless testing revealed that adjustment was needed.
It is very common here for people to say, "I have never had this problem before. It must be unique to the Wing." I often wonder why people seem to think that if they haven't had the problem, it must not be a problem. There is more out there than just your little world. If you doubt this issue exists with other bikes, you have a computer, use it! You will be busy reading for a week.
Loose stem bearings will be most prevalent on a newer bike with low miles. The bearings quite often will shift slightly from their installed position. And after a few thousand miles of being pounded by the road, they seat, and the bearing adjustment loosens up. Once the initial readjustment is done, they may never have to be adjusted again. Unfortunately, few people ever check it. It is much easier to just whine.
You can downplay the importance of properly adjusted stem bearings all you want. Makes no matter to me. All I know is, I keep mine adjusted, and I don't have the severe wobble problems that so many people on this board have had. I wonder how much money has been wasted by owners having bearings replaced because they didn't know that they might have fixed the problem by simply adjusting the preload on the ones they have.
In response to your last statement, no, I am not a Honda rep, but I have been involved in warranty service my whole career. Even though I have not worked for Honda specifically, I know the way mfr's think when it comes to service, and I know what is written in the Honda warranty booklet. Warranty guidelines are fairly standard throughout the industry. Even though you can sometimes get concessions if you whine enough, adjustments are not covered under warranty. Stem bearing adjustment is a routine maintenance item on motorcycles, and always has been. Regardless of whether that sits well with you or not, that's just the way it is. If the OP can get Honda to pay for it, more power to him.
Sincerely,
Honda District Service Rep Wannabe.
Larry
You are entitled to your opinion as well as am I.
Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black.
Have a great day.
Tim
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4,841 Posts
The Goldwing guy at my dealership checks my steering for play every time my bike is serviced. So far, he has not adjusted it, just checked it. I have had a decel wobble a few times and it is always tire related.
I have a good dealership (so far) for Goldwings near my home, Huntington Beach Honda.
I have a good dealership (so far) for Goldwings near my home, Huntington Beach Honda.
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