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Discussion Starter #1
I usually don’t post a lot butt when I see some things I feel there should be a mention on it.

Within the TECH section the question asked was about “what a wrench is worth”.
After a few responses from 2 sides (wrench/nonwrench types) and a few disgruntled WING OWNERS that claim they suffer from shoddy workmanship...
I have to wonder: you actually get back on the bike WITHOUT CHECKING IT OUT?
Missing parts, pieces not installed correctly, loose fasteners and the like and you just pay your money, JUMP on it and RIDE away??

STOP AND GIVE YOUR KEYS to someone else!

You don’t deserve to have the wing; or any other bike for that matter!
Owner and/or Riders should check the bike out before they ride it and never presume it is 100%. EVEN from the dealers.

I sure you folks would be the first to blame the wrench/service shop if and when you ride away and something terrible happens to you or a co-rider! Go play the lottery since you have been so lucky.

IT’S CALLED PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!
Don’t get on the bike unless you know it is 100% or put it away.

Good Grief!

Damn! no snow on the ground yet
 

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HI......I agree but I hope you have a good flame suit!!!!! when I worked on bikes I ALWAYS ask my customers to ride/check there bikes BEFORE they paid their bill!!!...chuck
 

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cdogbt1sw03033,
I think that's how most of us find the shoddy workmanship. I for one always give the bike a once over when getting it back. This has resulted in several hours of extra time spent at the dealer.

This is what frustrates me so much. They know how particular I am and still make simple mistakes. Missing bolts/washers, improperly installed pieces, electrical connections not made, tires mounted backward (yes that actually happened once), all make me wonder.

In fact I now have two things that should be replaced under warranty, but I just don't want to deal with the poor mechanics. I will probably just ask for the part and install it myself.
 

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I agree I dont let my local dealer work on mine at all!!They have 3 kids I bet they dont pay them $12 an hour & they charge $75.00 ( last time I checked!!)I am lucky when I was young I didnt have the money (2 young kids & a wife )so I had to learn to do this work myself!! I bought a CBX brand new !!(1979) Did my own valves :roll: :roll: all 24 of them!! about 1982 my local honda dealer was sending all there CBX's to me...oh well...chuck
 

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cdogbt1sw03033 said:
I usually don’t post a lot butt when I see some things I feel there should be a mention on it.

Within the TECH section the question asked was about “what a wrench is worth”.
After a few responses from 2 sides (wrench/nonwrench types) and a few disgruntled WING OWNERS that claim they suffer from shoddy workmanship...
I have to wonder: you actually get back on the bike WITHOUT CHECKING IT OUT?
Missing parts, pieces not installed correctly, loose fasteners and the like and you just pay your money, JUMP on it and RIDE away??
Absolutely. They have every right, just as when we pick our car up from a dealership repair, to expect that the work is done thoroughly, correctly, and without any other parts being lost, loose, or damaged. How many of us go over our cars with a fine-toothed comb before driving away from a service department?

STOP AND GIVE YOUR KEYS to someone else!
You don’t deserve to have the wing; or any other bike for that matter!
Owner and/or Riders should check the bike out before they ride it and never presume it is 100%. EVEN from the dealers.

I sure you folks would be the first to blame the wrench/service shop if and when you ride away and something terrible happens to you or a co-rider! Go play the lottery since you have been so lucky.

IT’S CALLED PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!
Don’t get on the bike unless you know it is 100% or put it away.

Good Grief!
A lot of capable guys on these message boards figure that everyone else is, too. Truth is, most folks don't have much in the way of mechanical aptitude or ability and likely don't own any more tools than required to hang a picture in their house. That's why professional mechanics are a necessity. Customers can't be expected to be the final step in the quality control process, nor should they be. As for loose or broken parts, those things often aren't apparent until someone else goes back into the bike to do a different job and finds the carnage. I do agree, though, that anyone who finds a glaring fault after a repair (like the brakes don't work) shouldn't leave the dealership with the bike until it's fixed.

And where does the personal respopnsibility stop? For most people, it stops with having followed the guidelines in the owners manual and taken the bike in for scheduled maintenance (or unscheduled repairs). Whether mechanically competent or not, a customer can't be expected to go over everything a mechanic touched to be sure it's right. If that were a necessity, there'd be no point to letting that mechanic even begin the work. Just as with our cars, we need to be able to trust that the professionals we pay to maintain our bikes are doing what we paid them to do. Same goes for your plumber, electrician, or any other person we pay to do the things we're not capable of.

While there are a lot of competent and diligent techs working in the industry, there are just as many who aren't fit to work in a lawnmower shop. The work is seasonal, the work force is transient, the pay usually stinks, and in many cases, continuing training is not a requirement for employment. Unfortunately, these folks only get weeded out when they begin costing the dealership money.

Stu
 

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You don’t deserve to have the wing; or any other bike for that matter.

Owner and/or Riders should check the bike out before they ride it and never presume it is 100%. EVEN from the dealers.

I sure you folks would be the first to blame the wrench/service shop if and when you ride away and something terrible happens to you or a co-rider! Go play the lottery since you have been so lucky.

IT’S CALLED PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!
Don’t get on the bike unless you know it is 100% or put it away.
Oh bite me! I have read some really amazing comments on this board over the years, but that one ranks right up there. :roll:

That is an old Harley mentality, one that says if you can't work on a bike you shouldn't own it. That requirement rose out of necessity more than anything else and I can't argue with it in that case. :lol:

Most workmanship problems can't be detected through a parking lot inspection, although I do agree that a quick inspection for obvious problems is common sense. I just had a tire put on my bike and did not find out until 3 months later when I removed the fender to work on the front end that the idiot at the dealer put the rubber gromments on the wrong bolts. I am lucky my fender did not crack. Does that mean I shouldn't own a motorcycle?

Taking responsibility? Do you check the torque of your wheel bolts in the parking lot after getting tires changed? Of course not. And you shouldn't be expected to. But that is exactly what you would have to do to ensure that the bike is 100% before you leave the dealer, as you are suggesting.

The incompetence of dealer motorcycle mechanics is the primary reason why I did not get the extended warranty. I am not going to pay for someone to do a half ass job on my bike. I would rather just do it myself.

I consider myself fortunate that I have a good mechanical aptitude and can work on my own bike. It helps that I also enjoy doing it. However I do not look down on those that don't share that same ability which is exactly what you are doing.

This thread is ridiculous.
 

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cdogbt1sw03033 said:
I usually don’t post a lot butt when I see some things I feel there should be a mention on it.

Within the TECH section the question asked was about “what a wrench is worth”.
After a few responses from 2 sides (wrench/nonwrench types) and a few disgruntled WING OWNERS that claim they suffer from shoddy workmanship...
I have to wonder: you actually get back on the bike WITHOUT CHECKING IT OUT?
Missing parts, pieces not installed correctly, loose fasteners and the like and you just pay your money, JUMP on it and RIDE away??

STOP AND GIVE YOUR KEYS to someone else!

You don’t deserve to have the wing; or any other bike for that matter!
Owner and/or Riders should check the bike out before they ride it and never presume it is 100%. EVEN from the dealers.

I sure you folks would be the first to blame the wrench/service shop if and when you ride away and something terrible happens to you or a co-rider! Go play the lottery since you have been so lucky.

IT’S CALLED PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!
Don’t get on the bike unless you know it is 100% or put it away.

Good Grief!

Damn! no snow on the ground yet
I'd just change one thing: Owner/riders must check out the bike and never presume it's a 100%. Especially from the dealers. Yep, I'm a little disgruntled with dealers and do mine own wrenching. T.
 

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cdogbt1sw03033 said:
I usually don’t post a lot butt when I see some things I feel there should be a mention on it.

Within the TECH section the question asked was about “what a wrench is worth”.
After a few responses from 2 sides (wrench/nonwrench types) and a few disgruntled WING OWNERS that claim they suffer from shoddy workmanship...
I have to wonder: you actually get back on the bike WITHOUT CHECKING IT OUT?
Missing parts, pieces not installed correctly, loose fasteners and the like and you just pay your money, JUMP on it and RIDE away??

STOP AND GIVE YOUR KEYS to someone else!

You don’t deserve to have the wing; or any other bike for that matter!
Owner and/or Riders should check the bike out before they ride it and never presume it is 100%. EVEN from the dealers.

I sure you folks would be the first to blame the wrench/service shop if and when you ride away and something terrible happens to you or a co-rider! Go play the lottery since you have been so lucky.

IT’S CALLED PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!
Don’t get on the bike unless you know it is 100% or put it away.

Good Grief!

Damn! no snow on the ground yet
 

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I suppose it is the pilots fault when the 747 falls out of the sky too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


cdogbt1sw03033 said:
I usually don’t post a lot butt when I see some things I feel there should be a mention on it.

Within the TECH section the question asked was about “what a wrench is worth”.
After a few responses from 2 sides (wrench/nonwrench types) and a few disgruntled WING OWNERS that claim they suffer from shoddy workmanship...
I have to wonder: you actually get back on the bike WITHOUT CHECKING IT OUT?
Missing parts, pieces not installed correctly, loose fasteners and the like and you just pay your money, JUMP on it and RIDE away??

STOP AND GIVE YOUR KEYS to someone else!

You don’t deserve to have the wing; or any other bike for that matter!
Owner and/or Riders should check the bike out before they ride it and never presume it is 100%. EVEN from the dealers.

I sure you folks would be the first to blame the wrench/service shop if and when you ride away and something terrible happens to you or a co-rider! Go play the lottery since you have been so lucky.

IT’S CALLED PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!
Don’t get on the bike unless you know it is 100% or put it away.

Good Grief!

Damn! no snow on the ground yet
 

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I guess after for the last 10 or 12 years I have owned my Goldwings under false pretenses. I am a mechanical idiot and have done more damage trying to do something myself rather than have a professional do it. I fully admit I know nothing about the working end of a wrench and never attempt to imply that I do.

Oh well. I guess I will take pictures of my bike and put it on the classified board. Although, I don't think I could fix my camera if it broke, so I guess I will sell it also.

Thank God you:
usually don’t post a lot
It's going to be a long winter. :roll:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I found some of the comments interesting, insightful by some, others not so “insightful”
Still the end results are the rider should “know” the bike.
Personal responsibilities shouldn’t end at the service desk after whipping out the visa, cash etc.

The Example provided of the Wrong location for fender bolts found 3 months after the service was performed?
Hello?
You had a tire replaced; did you not look at the tire and check the pressure? Perform a visual check on exposed fasteners or “sound” the fasteners before mounting up and riding off?

T-CLOCK anyone?

Personal responsibility doesn’t end at the mechanic’s workspace. It begins at the time one becomes the rider; prior to throwing a leg over the seat or allowing someone else to mount up.

From stu:
Absolutely. They have every right, just as when we pick our car up from a dealership repair, to expect that the work is done thoroughly, correctly, and without any other parts being lost, loose, or damaged. How many of us go over our cars with a fine-toothed comb before driving away from a service department?

Sounds like the old term “DEAD RIGHT”
I for one will check out the work performed by others if it occurs; which incidentally is few and far between. It’s a Goldwing fer crying out loud!

I guess I just learned too much insight from old man Joe Christian: a Wing Guru from days past.

Is it too much to ask the Mechanic or the Service manager to show you what was done; where are the old parts etc? This little time could perhaps provide some insight as to the quality of service performed and be an indicator of the work performed.

I am not here too Win an argument but rather point out the discrepancy I noted. Just like the times I would have gone to the service shop.

A tire change by a shop? I will most definitely check tire pressure, sound the bolts, grab the calipers and “Tap” the axle bolt before getting on the bike.

Loose radiator hose clamps? Ask the mechanic “how” it was done when you can see something wasn’t removed.
You may be surprised to know something’s are done differently than thought.

At a minimum, you will gain insight and/or the chance to help the mechanic out. He may have been busy trying to RUSH out another job from some other old Grumpy annoying Wing owner that was pissin’ and moaning why it cost so much too fix part “LMNOP”
 

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You had a tire replaced; did you not look at the tire and check the pressure? Perform a visual check on exposed fasteners or “sound” the fasteners before mounting up and riding off?
Thank you for typing that. It is a perfect example of exactly what I was talking about.

Of course I checked the tire presure. And on a quick inspection, all the fender bolts were there. However, you can barely see the rubber grommets with the bolts in place. On top of that, since I had never had the fender off, like most owners, it would not have been reasonable to expect me to know that they were in the wrong place. Heck, at the time, I didn't even know there were supposed to be grommets. It wasn't until I checked the service manual that I found out where he screwed up.

This is beyond the responibility of the owner. Checking oil, tire pressure, coolant level, and looking for external signs of loose parts is one thing. But I expect the person who works on my bike to know how to put it back together. If he can't, he should be fired and go work for Walmart. McDonalds would be too confusing. You have to know how to put a hamburger together there.

An owner's failure to catch problems during an inspection does not excuse the service department for their incompetence.

T-CLOCK anyone?
T-CLOCK? In a parking lot? I do a T-CLOCK every spring and before a long trip, but I am certainly not going to attempt something like that when I pick my bike up. That is easily a 2 hour job if done properly. Dealers charge $250 for it and obviously considering the condition that some bikes are in when they leave the service department, they can't be trusted to do even that simple task properly.
 

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cdog - please let us all know where you work so we can take our bikes someplace else.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
T = Tires, wheels
C = Controls
L = Lights
O = Oil leaks
C = Chassis
K = Kickstand

LarryM writes:

T-CLOCK? In a parking lot? I do a T-CLOCK every spring and before a long trip, but I am certainly not going to attempt something like that when I pick my bike up. That is easily a 2 hour job if done properly

i t takes you 2 hours? :shock:

Smitty pens:

cdog - please let us all know where you work so we can take our bikes someplace else.


i can ensure you the cost would be too much for you. beside Uncle Sams' Yatch Club members charge a high fee for services rendered. so payup!

and fear not, the west coast is only 50 hours or less by bike. just smile when i show up unnanounced.
 
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You people give some great pointers here between a wrench and a Goldwing owner checking/asking questions BEFORE leaving a dealership.

My only question is: "In this day and age of fast repairs behind closed doors, and a service manager saying your bill is $$$$$$, how do you get to talk to the wrench (s) that touch your ride???"
"How many dealerships will introduce the people working on your 1800 in the back room???"


I'm writing this for myself here, so should I, when needing service:

#1...Ask to speak directly to the wrench doing the work?
#2...Talk to him AGAIN before leaving the dealership to ask what he did?
#3...Check with various service centers and check prices on the work requested?
#4...Invite the wrench and his family over for a meal before letting him work on my Goldwing?
 

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cdog,
The entire TCLOCK procedure will indeed take a good 2 hours if you do everything in the list. It is 2 pages long. If you don't do this full procedure at least once a year, you have no business telling people they shouldn't own a bike.

Granted, a quick abridged TCLOCK should be done regularly, but the only way to really ensure that the bike is 100% as was suggested in the original post, you would have to go through the whole ball of wax.

If the tone of your original post had been different, you could have made a very good point. Motorcycles are not the same as cars. We have a lot more at stake if a failure ocurrs. As such, owners should not treat their bikes the same and should make a serious effort to learn as much as they can and take an active part in making sure the bike operates safely and correctly. Anyone who takes a complete hands off approach to their bike beyond checking tire pressure and oil level is accepting a greater risk than someone who maintains his/her own bike.

If you had written it that way, I would have given you one of these. :capwin:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Larry,
Wrt my riding style I am a long distance endurance rider. Nothing on the bike is applied that doesn’t allow me to complete the task. Extreme reliability is paramount to my endeavor. Items will not go onto the bike that would interfere with any safety item nor would an install cause any obstacles while riding.
Technical clothing, high quality gear and high quality wrenching is part and parcel of the genre of LD Riders. It doesn’t do us any good sitting on the side of the road due to some unchecked item installed by someone else.

When I speak of others blindly putting trust into the dealer reps and play the "mechanic by Visa" I am referring to those that won’t check their own rides without a checkout on there own. For them to cast doubt without knowing what is required is my gripe. Every owner of a new wing is issued an owners manual. Butt yet I have read numerous accounts of owners blindly calling foul when something’s don’t work or an oversight was incurred.

Truly there are “Owners” and “Riders”
As for my “tone” and the beer clash.

First tone:
Those pabulum puking left wing adult crybaby children need to be more tolerant of my insensitivity and sensitive to my lack of tolerance for their ridiculous inane utopian beliefs.

Second;
the beer is only after winding down and no riding time restriction

Also you still have me intrigued about this 2 hour deal to perform t-clock. Where are you referring to in this issue?
 

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Also you still have me intrigued about this 2 hour deal to perform t-clock. Where are you referring to in this issue
T-CLOCK stands for:

Tires&Wheels Controls Lights Oil Chassis Kickstand.

It is the most complete pre-ride check you can do and it was devised by the MSF. It should also suffice as an annual pre-inspection check in Virginia and DC.

TIRES & Wheels

Tires

Condition: tread depth, wear, weathering, evenly seated no bulges or embedded objects

Air pressure - check when cold and adjust to load/speed rating

Wheels

Spokes: bent, broken, missing, tension, loose

Cast: even, not bent or warped, no cracks

Rims: round/true, if out by more than 5mm replace

check - spin wheel against a stationary pointer

Bearings: grab top and bottom of tire and flex: no free play (clicks) between hub and axle and no growl when spun

Seals: not cracked, cut, torn, no excessive grease on outside, not reddish brown on outside

CONTROLS

Levers

Condition: not broken, bent, cracked, mounts tight

Pivots: lubricated

Cables

Condition: no fraying, kinks

lubrication - ends and length

Routing: no interference or pulling at steering head or at suspension; no sharp angles; wire looms in place

Hoses

Condition: no cuts, cracks, leaks, bulges, chafing, deterioration

Routing: no interference or pulling at steering head or at suspension; no sharp angles; wire looms in place

Throttle

Operation: moves freely, snaps closed, no revving

LIGHTS

Battery

Condition: terminals clean and bright, fluid level, strapped in place

Vent tube: not kinked, routed properly, not plugged up

Lenses

Condition: not cracked, broken, no condensation inside, securely mounted

Reflectors

Condition: not cracked, broken, securely mounted

Wiring

Condition: no fraying, chafing, in tact insulation

Routing: not pinched, no interference or pulling at steering head or at suspension; no sharp angles; wire looms in place

Connections: tight and clean

Head Lamp

Condition: no cracks in glass; reflector clean and silvered; solid mounting; adjuster works

Aim - height, right/left

OIL

Levels

Engine: check warm on centerstand

Hypoid Gear: transmission, drive shaft

Hydraulic Fluid: brakes and reservoir, clutch

Coolant: check cold in reservoir and/or recovery tank

Fuel: look in tank or rely on gauge

Leaks

Engine: gaskets, housings, seals

Hypoid Gear: gaskets, seals, breathers

Hydraulic Fluid: hoses, master cylinder, calipers

Coolant: radiator, hoses, tank

Fuel: lines, caps, carbs

CHASSIS

Frame

Condition: no cracks at gussets; accessory mounts secure; no paint lifting, peeling

Steering Head Bearings

Condition: no detent or tight spots on full travel

check - forks for play by raising front wheel and push/pull

Swingarm Bushings/Bearings

Condition: no play

check by raising wheel and push/pull

Suspension

Forks: smooth travel, equal air pressure if anti-dive

Shocks: smooth travel, equal air pressure pre-load or equal damping settings; linkage moves freely with adequate lubrication

Chain/Belt

Tension: check at tightest point, set to specs

Lubrication: (chain only) check side plates when hot

Sprockets: securely mounted; teeth are not hooked

Fasteners

Threaded: tight; no missing bolts or nuts

Clips: none broken or missing

Cotter Pins: all in place; none broken

KICKSTAND

Centerstand

Condition: no cracks; not bent

Retention: springs in place; stays up firmly

Sidestand

Condition: no cracks; not bent

safety cut-off switch operates

Retention: springs in place; stays up firmly
 

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What about the lame dealer who promised that they did an air filter change and when I had it check out very soon thereafter (gut feeling) they HAD NOT changed the air filter?

Who'd check that maintenance work? Long job for someone who does it everyday.

When they said they did it why shouldn't I fully expect that they indeed had done it!?

Also during the valve 32K maintenance check there were mechanically non-essential parts missing. Just let me know how shoddy & lame the wrench turners pride is in his work.

Now- how much of the bike should I pay someone else to tear down because I can do some basics but not everything after our bike was in the deer wreck and the entire right side was replaced.
 

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cdog,

Interesting post. It actually brought out an emotional response from me. Well done! That response was of course "Who died and made you in charge of what I deserve or don't deserve"!

Of course your post was passionate and I am sure well intentioned. But whenever you make such a strong statement as "You do/don't deserve" states you have judge others by such miniscule criteria as whether they expect the same kind of service as they would from any reputable dealer.

There is merit to what you've stated. Just no merit to your judgement. But Irespect your right to an opinion just don't shove it down my throat (in general)


FF
 
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