[WNG-2]

Thats just the reflection of the glass. There is nothing in any of it.

Ok.I hope you can resolve the issue without going to another dealer.

 

[Earthdog]

Outcome of the gas flush.

It started... I opted to let it run on the center stand for 45 minutes. I wanted it to flush out any gas that may have remained in the system. I had pulled 4 gallons out no appearance of water or debris and replaced it with 4 gallons of Shell 87 octane.

After the 45 minutes I decided its time to take it for a ride before shutting it off and restarting. Everything appeared fine during the 45 minutes (fans kicked in serval times etc).

Roll it out of my garage while still running. Pulled brake handle pressed D. Gear and mode indicator went from N and Tour to --- and snowflakes the bike stopped running on its own. It attempted to restart a few times display remained --- and snowflakes.

I turned off the bike and back on display went back to N Tour. I attempted to restart and the result was like in my previous post of Video 1. Rolled it back in the garage. waited 5 minutes popped it on the center stand and thought what the heck I will try the DCT Initialization. I did the sequence, when it was time to depress the start button it did the same as

Video 1

Ultimately, I don't think there was anything wrong with the previous fuel. All I know for sure is the MIL code is 116 and for some reason it occasionally starts. I can't make it start but I do believe the times it has started I have powered on the bike did several throttle 1/2 rolls and depressed the button and it fired up. Since I can't replicate this result I'm not sure its really relevant.

I appreciate the forums help so far, we have had more of a result than the dealer did in a month.

 

[Zee Fifty]

Fuel pump… sometimes it makes enough pressure and most times it don’t.

I would have the fuel pressure checked. I’m still not confident the other dealer did it…they just said it’s fine and left it at that. You need to verify the fuel pressure numbers. Hopefully dealer #2 can do this.

 

[Fred H.]

MIL code 116 is for the ISG, which probably explains why the dealer wanted to replace it. If you get it started again, put a voltmeter across the battery terminals while it is running and report what it reads.

 

[Fred H.]

By the way, how is your battery? You might want to put it on a charger overnight and see if that makes any difference in the morning. We've seen low batteries cause ISG fault codes.

 

[Earthdog]

MIL code 116 is for the ISG, which probably explains why the dealer wanted to replace it. If you get it started again, put a voltmeter across the battery terminals while it is running and report what it reads.

View attachment 498107

When it was running I did check the battery terminals. It was between 14.1-14.4

 

[Earthdog]

By the way, how is your battery? You might want to put it on a charger overnight and see if that makes any difference in the morning. We've seen low batteries cause ISG fault codes.

It's been on a Battery Tender when not running to keep it charged. I just recorded this video first its start with 1/4 throttle then no throttle voltage. Then the final Cut is the sound it's making in the engine.

Tell me if the battery looks good to you?

Video 4

 

[Fred H.]

I think your battery voltage looks ok during cranking, but I'd like to see the resting voltage around 12.8 volts on a fully charged AGM battery. One way to rule out the battery would be to hook up a jumper battery during cranking and see if it makes any difference. I'd also pull the audio fuse just to protect it from surges.

If the voltage was above 14 volts when the engine was running, that would mean the ISG was charging properly and working ok. Which makes me want to think maybe it is a fuel pump problem. I'd really like to see what the fuel pressure is during cranking, because that would tell you if the pump is properly pressurizing the fuel rail.

All an engine needs to run, is spark, fuel, and air. I'm assuming the airflow isn't blocked, but a mouse nest in the air filter isn't out of range of possibilities. If you pull a plug and ground it with the coil top plugged into it, you should see spark when cranking. And if the plug is wet with fuel, that would also tell you it's getting fuel. So it might be worth pulling one out and having a look. If the plug doesn't spark during cranking, then you know the ECM isn't telling it to fire and you have an electrical issue of some sort.

When the bike did actually run, did you see a lot of exhaust and did it smell really rich like the cylinders were flooded and clearing themselves out, or did it run normally?

 

[Zee Fifty]

I’m guessing you may have additional trouble codes recorded since you had the bike running and then it quit while running. May have recorded some additional codes in addition to the one the previous dealer pulled.

 

[AussieChris]

I’m guessing you may have additional trouble codes recorded since you had the bike running and then it quit while running. May have recorded some additional codes in addition to the one the previous dealer pulled.

That doesn't appear to be the case. As I mentioned earlier in post #90, the bike should display all stored codes in numerical order. Code 116 is almost the highest numbered code (there's only 3 higher and they are for Cruise Control). So if other codes are present, they would have displayed before DTC 116 the OP is seeing. If the bike is just repeating the 11 long blinks, 6 short blinks pattern over and over then there are no additional codes.

Hopefully @Earthdog will be along soon to confirm that.

 

[Earthdog]

Post the run for 45 and died when attempted to put into D its still just the 116 code.

 

[Fred H.]

Knowing whether the plugs are sparking would go a long way in helping troubleshoot and would tell us if it is an electrical/electronic issue, or a fuel issue.

 

[Zee Fifty]

Knowing whether the plugs are sparking would go a long way in helping troubleshoot and would tell us if it is an electrical/electronic issue, or a fuel issue.

Likely not…. In most cases with most modern fuel injected engines the ECU will not command to fire either fuel injectors or spark ignition if their is any reason or problem for about anything. Its difficult to isolate a no start condition..… not exactly sure about Goldwings though. A lot of time if you get a failure with injectors, fuel pumps or crank position sensors you may get failure codes for all cylinders for both injectors and spark.

It would be really nice if Honda had troubleshooting breakout harnesses that you could install onto the ECU connectors to survey all the input signals going into the ECU to isolate which signal is not working properly.

 

[Fred H.]

Knowing if it has spark will essentially cut the problem in half. If it has spark, then we can start looking at the fuel pump and fuel pressure. If it doesn't have spark, then we know the ECM isn't letting it fire and we can start focusing on why.

 

[Fred H.]

By the way, you may be correct in your assumption that the ECM is not letting the bike fire, but I'd just like to confirm that by seeing if there is spark, because that way we can rule out the fuel pump or fuel as the issue.

 

[Fred H.]

And here is another thing to check. The Ignition Main Fuse is one of the two external fuses to the fuse box, and we have seen bikes in the past get moisture intrusion into the connector for these fuses and cause corrosion, heat, and even melting of the back side of the connector body. If the ignition main fuse has poor contact with the metal connectors in the holder, then the bike won't run. I would suggest removing both of these fuses and looking down into the connector with a flashlight and closely inspecting the connector for any evidence of heat or corrosion. Don't assume that if the fuse isn't blown that it is ok, the problem may be with the connectors themselves.

 

[Zee Fifty]

If you do decide to experiment and check for spark…. Don’t remove the spark plug and use another plug to put on the coil. Keep it grounded at all times. Removing a plug may signal a loss of compression and shut down the ecu command to fire all in it self…. Same with not grounding the plug when cranking… all these could result in additional trouble codes…. Just complicating the troubleshooting. But if your diligent on how you do it It would work.

 

[Fred H.]

The ECM can only detect a misfire condition if the engine is actually running, it can't detect a spark plug has been removed during cranking over of the engine and when the engine doesn't even start.

I'm working on the assumption that the bike won't start, but if you have a plug removed and crank it over and the bike decides to start and run, then that might trigger a fault code. If it did it would be pretty easy to understand what caused the code and then just clear it out.

Regardless of this, I'd probably suggest checking the fuse holders I posted about above first, because they could very easily be the cause of all your problems.

 

[Earthdog]

The ECM can only detect a misfire condition if the engine is actually running, it can't detect a spark plug has been removed during cranking over of the engine and when the engine doesn't even start.

I'm working on the assumption that the bike won't start, but if you have a plug removed and crank it over and the bike decides to start and run, then that might trigger a fault code. If it did it would be pretty easy to understand what caused the code and then just clear it out.

Regardless of this, I'd probably suggest checking the fuse holders I posted about above first, because they could very easily be the cause of all your problems.

@Fred H. Have I check the plugs for spark no I have not. I do question the need as it sounds to me like it's firing some of the time. Also if I roll the throttle 1/4 it fires its more like it gets cut off in the start sequence. But the bike has started and engine run this weekend

Saturday:
1st time for 10 minutes in idle state. I cut off to see if it would restart
2nd time for 5 minutes in idle state. I cut off to see if would restart, would not run again only attempt to run

Sunday:
Drained all fuel and replaced.
1st time ran for 45 minutes straight. I rolled it to the driveway running and sat on it with the key and kickstand up pressed the brake then the D and it went off and dash had snowflakes. Turned off and turned back on snowflakes gone. Not started since.
I am inclined to rule out the fuel since it has not started since the 45 minutes.

Monday:
Checked for additional codes after snowflakes still just 116

Once it does run and after it burns off fuel in system seems to run fine. Similar to the Gen 4 and 5 models I have had before.

I'm up to try anything.

FYI: Unless I can figure it out in the next 24 hours it's headed to Southern Honda Powersports (1.5 hour drive) for a Tuesday afternoon appointment drop off.

 

[Fred H.]

Check those fuse holders