The downside to those built in headsets is they can not be charged on the fly like the 20S Evo, 50S, and the 60S can. Also when you change helmets you have to invest in a new headset instead of using your existing headset with the new helmet. I really like the looks with the Shoei GT Air and the Neotech, but the cons with the built in headsets outweigh the looks IMO.

 

I have a question on the mesh / bluetooth…..I understand the mesh is for bike to bike conversation…is the bluetooth intercom just for rider to passenger talking, or can the bluetooth be used for bike to bike as well ??….thx

Scott

 

You can use mesh for rider passenger intercom as well as Bluetooth Intercom. Both Sena and Cardo mesh have the option for a private group.

 

I think I'll just keep my Packtalk Bold. Volumes are adjustable for each different application. My only problem is a staple in rear tire and waiting for a new one.

 

Very Interesting. Perhaps they will come out with a 70s for who knows how much to fix this? I have two 20s units. My wife doesn't ride anymore so I am essentially just using the headset to run Android Auto and receive phone calls. Over the summer I purchased a Shoei Neotec 3 helmet. I installed my 20S. I was considering buying the integrated Sena unit for the helmet just for a cleaner look, and improved battery life. I understand this unit is based on the 50S. Is that true, and does it have the same volume control flaw? I am leaning towards just running the 20s and carrying the spare 20s on trips and long days(rare) to deal with battery life. Thanks for all the information.

 

I understand this unit is based on the 50S. Is that true, and does it have the same volume control flaw? I am leaning towards just running the 20s and carrying the spare 20s on trips and long days(rare) to deal with battery life. Thanks for all the information.

The SRL-3 which integrates into the Neotech 3 is indeed based on the 50S
Like the 20S, the SRL-3 and 50S have to be dialed in to reduce background noise sensitivity.

Only the 60S has the volume issue and prioritization issue. The SRL 3 and 50S don't.

 

I installed the new JM cb volume amplifier- works awesome up 3.1 miles in 80 mph wind

 

Fabulous!

 

Anyone willing to help me do some testing this Tuesday late afternoon/evening or/and Wednesday while I’m in transit to Zion/Bryce/Capital Reef?

Just need take some short phone calls?

I dont have a definitive schedule for those day, will be a bit adhoc but probably can work out a time if needed

@Fred H. @kwthom @Roadie @Auburn

 

So just for grins, I looked at the updated Motorcycle App from Sena, and interestingly enough, I found some new volume settings for both the Mesh and Bluetooth intercom levels in the app. Maybe this is Sena's solution?? One thing I noticed is that the Bluetooth and Mesh volume levels are tied together, so a change to either one affects both of them.

I haven't tested it, but maybe this is a way you can turn down the intercom level so it doesn't blow you out of your helmet.

 

No I played with these settings and all they do is adjust the volume level across the board. The only way to make the 60S useful with talking rider to rider and listening to music is turn the volume down on the 60S and turn the volume all the way up with the Gold Wings audio..then its somewhat OK but a compromise with lower music volume than I like at times. You can also play the music thru the Gold Wings speakers which is ok but not what I like. But when riding alone and just listening to music the 60S is pretty awesome with its sound IMO.

 

The root of the problem lies in trying to use a single volume control on the device to control multiple volume settings. It would have probably been smarter to have balance settings in the App for all the separate paired devices and just have the main knob on the unit act as a master volume control. Then you'd just need to go into the app to make tweaks to each paired devices volume setting until you got them where you wanted.

If they were really smart, they would incorporate some sort of "smart volume" setting that would automatically balance the levels of the all the paired devices (dynamically) to be equal, so the user didn't have to try to manage them. A few simple OP amp circuits could easily do this. But there might be cases where someone would want the intercom to be louder (or softer) than the main paired phone, so some trim setting still might be needed.

I guess my point is that there are a lot of better ways Sena could have solved the multiple volume level issue if they simply put a little more thought into it. At the very LEAST, the intercom volume needs to be adjustable without changing the MASTER volume setting.

 

If the Gold Wing is paired as a "phone", then how does that separate volume work since nearly all the audio (including phone calls) is passed through CarPlay to the headset as "phone"?

And then what is considered as "master volume" since the CarPlay "phone" connection will always be active?

What is needed is a separate volume controls for intercom and GPS paired devices.

It appears Sena doesn't "get it". Every single paired device needs it's own volume control. This includes both Mesh and Bluetooth intercoms.

 

It isn’t the devices, it is the protocol for different functions regardless of device that lets the headset separate volume controls and prioritize those inputs

phone = hfp
Navigation = hfp
Phone app for navigation = hfp
CB = hfp

intercom = not sure what it is but is different than hfp and A2DP

music = A2DP

that is why it is possible to have multiple inputs from multiple devices with the same protocol active at the same time (wing’s nav talking at the same time as phone navigation app talking).

in non-60S headsets, these would have higher priority and interrupt both intercom and music

In 60s intercom is highest priority
Side note: -another 60S issue is phone call riser talk being put on both the phone call and intercom at the same time

the wing also does protocol and source prioritization before it gets to a headset,
that is why CB will trump anything coming from the Wing ,
the wing knows the HFP input is from the CB and will send CB to the headset and stop sending anything else. The headset will then have to decide what to do with the CB (HFP) input vs intercom input

So, for all headsets, there are two considerations (protocol and volume for that protocol) that are interrelated but different

 

I think @Roadie has some accurate info about phone volume Control being separated

Suspect that adjustment can only be independently made on the headset during a phone call
Need to look into that

@Fred H. @kwthom.

The Best Motorcycle & Action Sport Bluetooth Devices | Sena

Sena's motorcycle Bluetooth communication devices and video imaging systems are designed to inspire your pursuit of adventure. Find out how here.

www.sena.com

 

Explained months ago...from a discussion I had with a Sena R&D rep while trying to help someone else with this very issue.

Sena had some real complaints from a lot of other users about the on-device control of volumes. The improvements made to the device app (for your phone) helped with that complexity of getting things set up properly, yet the old way is still there on the device.

This was such an issue apparently, that it was initially decided that there would be only a single volume control when the 60's were released.

The company instantly knew this was in error when the number of complaints they got about this very issue far surpassed the previous level of complaints when the 60's were released. Obviously not much beta testing happened.

Seems like as far as the firmware writers for Sena, it's a low number. A very low number of people doing this work for them. This is why there's quite the delay in 'please fix this' to 'a fix is available'.

I really have a hard time believing that the older Sena's like the 20S Evo had any complaints with the separate volume controls. It was intuitive and so easy to use, you simply turned the jog dial to control the volume while the other rider was talking to you and that set the intercom volume...samething with the music..samething with the GPS voice. I don't see how it could had gotten any simpler to use and it worked so well...just amazing the guys at Sena wouldn't keep that feature, as it is now this 60S is nearly unusable if you want to talk rider to rider and listen to music at the sametime. Sena should be embarrassed for putting a flagship headset out like this especally since the older 20S worked so good. I do like the better sound and the mesh feature, but I feel like I got ripped off spending 400 dollars on the 60S and wish I just replaced the battery in my 20S Evo.

 

I do like the better sound and the mesh feature, but I feel like I got ripped off spending 400 dollars on the 60S ...

Well, as some others have, I bought a pair of them...$800.00. IMHO (at this point) money not well spent. Im still holding out hope that Sena figures out a solution and provides an update.

 

Hopefully this will be coming in a future update, but it isn't here just yet. I'd recommend continuing to hound Sena about it until they fix it.

 

The thing that gets me is why does Google go such detail about the 60S when it it was first released talking about how it doesn't have the separate volume controls like the 50S did and how owners are complaining and such and how Sena released firmware updates to change and add the separate volume controls to the 60S.

I wonder now if the current 60S being sold today has the changes with the separate volume controls and the earlier models are being left out. Sena did something similar with the first 50S when they were released.

Its such a shame because the 60S sounds so nice with the music with more than enough volume, and is finally waterproof, and the over the air updates feature is very nice, along with the better battery life, but the single volume control is just so stupid and makes the 60S unusable if you want to listen to music and talk bike to bike at the sametime...it just amazes me that Sena wouldn't had kept the best features of the older 20S Evo and 50S with the new flagship 60S...how could Sena be so stupid

 

I’ve had the 1.2 update for several months, did nothing to volumes

 

Yea, I think Mr. Google may have lied to Roadie. I just updated the app and connected my phone, and it is showing version 1.2 as the latest there too.

 

Yea, I think Google has lied about the 60S getting firmware updates to fix the separate volume controls with the 60S because nothing has changed. The 60S sounds great and is waterproof and I love the over the air firmware updates with the 60S, but the single volume control with the 60S is a fatal flaw IMO. I wish didn't spend the 400 dollars on the 60S because my 20S Evo just worked better with the music and the intercom with its separate volume controls.

 

So we all know the Sena 60S was introduced with a single volume control, where as the older Sena 50S and 20S had separate volume controls for music and intercom/mesh. I just did a Google on the 60S and its saying that Sena has updated the firmware and brought back the separate volume controls to the 60S.

I just updated my 60S with the latest firmware, but I have no one to ride with at the present to see for myself if the separate volume control was added. Can anybody tell me if the separate volume control was added back to the 60S with the latest firmware update?

I’m not seeing separate volume controls with 1.2 firmware. Don‘t need someone to ride with. Get the music flowing and make a phone call. Music, phone (includes nav and CB), and intercom are different.

 

I just updated mine using a wired connection to my PC and the Sena Device Manager program, and the latest release I received was version 1.2

I don't see anything at all in the notes about a change to way the volume settings work. Did you find a newer version than 1.2?

The Best Motorcycle & Action Sport Bluetooth Devices | Sena

Sena's motorcycle Bluetooth communication devices and video imaging systems are designed to inspire your pursuit of adventure. Find out how here.

www.sena.com

60S v1.2 Firmware Update
• Added Action Cam Pairing mode to allow users to make and receive phone calls while connected to an action camera.
Note: Music and the FM radio are not available when connected to an action camera through Action Cam Pairing.
• Added remote control support for the Insta360 X5

 

I’m showing version 1.2 on one my 60S headsets as the latest version. The Sena app does not show separate volume controls.
I do know that Sena was adjusted the volume “profile” for phone in version 1.1.7. … what phone profile’s volume level was compared to intercom profile (top priority) and music profile (lowest priority)
The user could not see nor could adjust the those profiles.

 

I think you just have to turn the volume knob on the Sena while the source you want to adjust is active. So if you're on a cell phone call, and you turn the knob, it should only affect the cell phone volume level and nothing else. If you have an intercom session active, then turning the knob during intercom operation should only impact the intercom level.

I could be wrong, but I'm not sure there is any way to do this in the app, I think it has to be done on the headset.

I'm really happy to hear they made this change, it was my biggest complaint with the 60S. Can you post what the firmware version level is this change was made on? I don't see it on their website.

 

I updated to the 1.2 firmware. If you Goggle the 60S it says the 60S has received firmware updates to restore the separate volume controls that the 50S has after many user complaints, but its just not true, at least with my 60S

 

The Sena app just updated on my phone and my Sena 60S just updated. The sources on Google are saying that Sena updated and brought back the separate volume controls to the 60S like the 50S has after many complaints and to go to the Sena app to adjust the muiltasking setting in the Sena app, however I see no difference at all in the Sena app after the latest update. I don't see any muiltasking setting at all in the Sena app for the 60S.

 

Should confirm with the app if they're available.