[sunny_gv01]

PFA update form Sena Support on 50S Ver 1 (non HK units):

Our upper management has confirmed that while Mesh 3.0 is currently supported by devices like the 50S-10 and 60S, updates for additional Sena devices are still in development. Our team is actively working to expand compatibility and release firmware updates for Mesh 2.0 devices in the future.​

 

[Navy Gator]

Good clarification. But clarifying your clarification, when a lot of people read "they are incompatible" they just throw in the towel and say they don't work. But parsing the info you provided, 3.0 devices do work with 2.0 devices if you pat your tummy and rub your head. And they're throwing a 3.0 life line to some 2.0 devices. So they kinda do work.

So it's a bit of a Clintonesque discussion of what the meaning of 'incompatible' is. 🤣

I can see what you mean when looking at it from a device aka headset perspective - mesh 3.0 devices have some backward compatibility with mesh 2.0 devices

however from a functional or network perspective, 3.0 is not compatible with 2.0, kinda like touch tone phones were not compatible with rotary phone lines (2.0 network)

shifting from 3.0 to 2.0 is pretty easy
Ensure phone and headset are connected via BT
In Sena app- go to settings
Scroll down to Utility settings
“Unselect Mesh 3.0”
Close app

no belly rubs or voodoo needed.

 

[Roadie]

The mesh is definitely a step up from the old bluetooth intercom. I just wish they would pick a format and stick with it, and not keep changing it every other year.

My biggest single complaint with ALL of the bluetooth headsets is the problem of inadvertent transmission because they don't have a push-to-talk capability. Anyone who's been around radios for more than 10 minutes knows that transmissions should always be initiated intentionally via a button push to avoid accidental transmissions. I've heard from one group where one guy likes to sing in his helmet to his music. You can imagine what this does to group communications. I've heard another report from a group about a heavy breather that constantly trips his mic.

In theory, the new Wave app sounds like a nice way to increase distance. Not sure how well its actually going to work in practice thought.

With my Sena 20S Evo I would simply push the jog dial button to shut off the intercom and then hit it when I did want to talk..doing that prevented all the unwanted transmissions to the other riders.

 

[kwthom]

There's some data magic going on between mesh 3 and mesh 2, since there's no hardware change.

Thus, the reduction in 'channels' from 9 to 6.

That's the incompatibly between them.

 

[Navy Gator]

With my Sena 20S Evo I would simply push the jog dial button to shut off the intercom and then hit it when I did want to talk..doing that prevented all the unwanted transmissions to the other riders.

Sena Mesh intercom has a mic mute feature (Cardo's can not mute the mic)

Mesh Button (easy to touch on SRL series, a bit harder on all others)
Tap = on/off for mesh intercom - sames the BT intercom on the 20s
Hold 1 sec = mic mute on/off for mesh intercom (doesn't stop the chatter boxes on the other end)
Hold 3 sec = on/off for group (private) mesh intercom

Work around for lack of a PTT - recent group ride - leader required everyone to mute their mics except the lead and sweep (tail). Only unmute when needing to say something. Very pleasant ride.

 

[Big_Bird]

With my Sena 20S Evo I would simply push the jog dial button to shut off the intercom and then hit it when I did want to talk..doing that prevented all the unwanted transmissions to the other riders.

That gets rid of the receptions, too. But the sometimes nice thing about BT intercom (one of the few nice things) is that you could connect with your paired friend from your end when you had something to say to them; until the erased you, you didn't need their permission to just pop up.

I don't use private mesh often. Can't remember if there is an option to boot people out.

 

[Navy Gator]

But the sometimes nice thing about BT intercom (one of the few nice things) is that you could connect with your paired friend from your end when you had something to say to them; until the erased you, you didn't need their permission to just pop up.

I don't use private mesh often. Can't remember if there is an option to boot people out.

BT intercom does automatically activate a paired headsets BT intercom...but maybe I don't want it turned on by someone else

Sena is trying to do something similar with Mesh Connect, but it requires the other person to accept the connection.

I haven't messed with Group Mesh so don't know about managing participants.

 

[DanPrecision]

Finally had a chance to read up on all this. One of the components that I would potentially find useful is the Live Location Display. I led quite a few groups last year, and luckily, most of the riders have been happy riding their own pace. So, sometimes I'll bomb it through some of the curves and lose connection with my riders. Obviously, the Wave-to-Mesh Conversion will keep us connected.

However, as a leader, I'm always concerned that if someone in the group has a spill, and/or goes far enough off the road, it would be difficult to find them. First, with current mesh, if you're not connected, you may not hear them go down. Second, you'd have to backtrack and start looking to see if you could find the wreck.

My first point would potentially be resolved because you may hear the accident. IF the Live Location Display would show the rider's location, that would make it super-easy to find them. The other thing that would be crucial, is if the rider loses cell coverage, the Live Location Display would still show the last known location. That could help narrow down the search area.

I know my above scenario is a rare occurrence, but I feel that any technology that can help an injured rider get medical attention as soon as possible, is always a great help.

Hopefully I can test this out in a month or so when the weather here clear up.

 

[Big_Bird]

@DanPrecision yup. Trip to the Med, a friend who liked to ride last turned her mic off. Then ran into a cliff, broke both arms, and eventually lost an eye. Sweep van caught it. First day of a 15 day trip. First day with a sweep van. Glad we didn't have to hunt.

After some reading, I think Wave is mostly phone based and switches to mesh when data coverage wanes. I read it the other way at first. Still not sure.

 

[Navy Gator]

Doing some bench checks with Wave app (on an iPhone), 60s (1.1.1) and SRL-Mesh (1.6.1)

Wave is not Apple Car Play or Android Auto compatible - very disappointing.

Does not need a headset connected to turn Wave intercom on and off using Wave app on phone.

Ranges (this is a hot mess)...as Project Farm says..."We are going to test that!"
@kwthom

1 Mile or 5 mile Radius - Wave Zone (shows up as a ring on the map)
website first says - a double-tap on the headset Mesh button instantly connects you to any nearby riders in Wave Zone which is 1-mile radius.
website later says - 5 mile / 8 km radius - Wave Zone - where random users are connected
instructions say - 5 mile / 8 km radius - Wave Zone - where random users are connected

2 Mile or 6 mile Radius - not on friends list
website says - participants in the Wave intercom not on your Friends List will disconnect if they exceed 2-miles from your location
Instructions say - However, if they are not on your friends list, they will be disconnected beyond a 6-mile radius in North America or a 10-km radius in Europe.

Unlimited Range- Friends active in the Wave intercom
Website says - Friends active in the Wave intercom and on your list will stay connected (assuming cell coverage) until the WAVE Intercom session ends
Instructions say - If they are on your friends list, the conversation will remain active regardless of the distance.

Audio Output
Audio Output Selection can only be made from the Wave app. Wave app has an audio output selection for phone, speaker, and headset (shown as a bluetooth symbol).

No way to change output via the headset or ACP/AA.

Haven't figured out the defaults.

Probably have to make the selection in the Wave app before pulling out on the road unless you have your phone mounted on your handlebars.


Headset Details
60s model is recognized by Wave. SRL-Mesh shows up as a "Sena Device".

Headset on, mesh intercom off, Wave app connected to headset, wave intercom initially off then turned on

When Wave intercom is activated, audio voice says "wave intercom on"

Works with both 60s and SRL+Mesh


Headset on, mesh intercom ON, Wave app connected to headset, wave intercom initially off then turned on

Audio in Headset states "Mesh Intercom On, Open, Mesh Channel 1" and indicator lights are green

Wave app shows Mesh intercom on, open mesh channel 1

When Wave Intercom is activated, Audio in 60s states "Mesh Intercom off." No message to SRL-Mesh. Immediately afterward, audio on 60s and SRL-Mesh states "wave intercom on". Lights on headsets change from green to blue.

When Wave intercom is deactivated, headsets default back to mesh intercom and lights turn green. There are no voice statuses provided.
Won't know when that switch occurs.


@Big_Bird Your are correct. I got this wrong at first.
Looks like cellular is primary and mesh is back up and can switch between the two.

• Automatic Transitioning: Sena devices seamlessly switch from Wave Intercom to Mesh Intercom when network coverage is lost, ensuring group communication continues uninterrupted.
• Reliable Backup: Mesh 3.0 technology provides a robust fallback option, ensuring riders within range stay connected while Wave Intercom reconnects.
• Dual Compatibility: This intelligent system works with both Wave Intercom and legacy Sena Mesh 2.0 Intercom devices, making it ideal for diverse riding groups.
• Note: You can switch between Wave Intercom and Mesh Intercom by tapping the Jog Dial or the Center button once.

 

[sunny_gv01]

Doing some bench checks with Wave app (on an iPhone), 60s (1.1.1) and SRL-Mesh (1.6.1)
Sunny: Phone S24Ultra, Sena 50S-01 (Ver 1, Non HK, FW 1.3.1), Shoks Bone Conduction Headphones

Wave is not Apple Car Play or Android Auto compatible - very disappointing.

Does not need a headset connected to turn Wave intercom on and off using Wave app on phone.

Ranges (this is a hot mess)...as Project Farm says..."We are going to test that!"
@kwthom

1 Mile or 5 mile Radius - Wave Zone (shows up as a ring on the map)
website first says - a double-tap on the headset Mesh button instantly connects you to any nearby riders in Wave Zone which is 1-mile radius.
website later says - 5 mile / 8 km radius - Wave Zone - where random users are connected
instructions say - 5 mile / 8 km radius - Wave Zone - where random users are connected

2 Mile or 6 mile Radius - not on friends list
website says - participants in the Wave intercom not on your Friends List will disconnect if they exceed 2-miles from your location
Instructions say - However, if they are not on your friends list, they will be disconnected beyond a 6-mile radius in North America or a 10-km radius in Europe.

Unlimited Range- Friends active in the Wave intercom
Website says - Friends active in the Wave intercom and on your list will stay connected (assuming cell coverage) until the WAVE Intercom session ends
Instructions say - If they are on your friends list, the conversation will remain active regardless of the distance.

Audio Output
Audio Output Selection can only be made from the Wave app. Wave app has an audio output selection for phone, speaker, and headset (shown as a bluetooth symbol).

No way to change output via the headset or ACP/AA.

Haven't figured out the defaults.

Probably have to make the selection in the Wave app before pulling out on the road unless you have your phone mounted on your handlebars.


Headset Details
60s model is recognized by Wave. SRL-Mesh shows up as a "Sena Device".
Sunny: Sena 50S-01 (Ver 1, Non HK, FW 1.3.1), Shoks Bone Conduction Headphones

Headset on, mesh intercom off, Wave app connected to headset, wave intercom initially off then turned on

When Wave intercom is activated, audio voice says "wave intercom on"

Works with both 60s and SRL+Mesh
Sunny: works with Sena 50S-01, works with Shoks


Headset on, mesh intercom ON, Wave app connected to headset, wave intercom initially off then turned on

Audio in Headset states "Mesh Intercom On, Open, Mesh Channel 1" and indicator lights are green
Sunny: Sena 50S-01 & Shoks-> "Joined Wave", no msg when wave is turned off

Wave app shows Mesh intercom on, open mesh channel 1
Sunny: Wave app shows "Sena Device". Shoks shows up as unknown device

When Wave Intercom is activated, Audio in 60s states "Mesh Intercom off." No message to SRL-Mesh. Immediately afterward, audio on 60s and SRL-Mesh states "wave intercom on". Lights on headsets change from green to blue.
Sunny: No msg on 50S, headset lights turn blue form green
No msg on shoks, no lights on Shoks as it does not have mesh

When Wave intercom is deactivated, headsets default back to mesh intercom and lights turn green. There are no voice statuses provided.
Won't know when that switch occurs.
Sunny: no msg on 50S, lights turn green
no msg on shoks, no lights on shoks

@Big_Bird Your are correct. I got this wrong at first.
Looks like cellular is primary and mesh is back up and can switch between the two.

• Automatic Transitioning: Sena devices seamlessly switch from Wave Intercom to Mesh Intercom when network coverage is lost, ensuring group communication continues uninterrupted.
• Reliable Backup: Mesh 3.0 technology provides a robust fallback option, ensuring riders within range stay connected while Wave Intercom reconnects.
• Dual Compatibility: This intelligent system works with both Wave Intercom and legacy Sena Mesh 2.0 Intercom devices, making it ideal for diverse riding groups.
• Note: You can switch between Wave Intercom and Mesh Intercom by tapping the Jog Dial or the Center button once.
• Sunny: switch between Wave Intercom and Mesh Intercom by tapping the Jog Dial did not work non 50S-01, NA for Shoks

Sunny: NOTE: if you are playing music simultaneously, when wave disconnects, the music will not pipe to the headset. You may need to start and stop the music. So in theory, Cardo Units will work, but once it goes out range, Cardo will not fall back to Mesh. And this will limit the connectivity with Cardo units in good cell signal are...

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Nice write up @Navy Gator

Replicating your test with my Sena 50S-01 (Ver 1)

I will update your post in my reply with my inputs so there is a common doc... may be we can make a sticky entry with everyone inputs / experience on this. My inputs in italics.

I hope that is fine ...

 

[kwthom]

"Hot mess" - some things never change with Sena it seems.

Nice work.

 

[DanPrecision]

Nice write up @Navy Gator

Replicating your test with my Sena 50S-01 (Ver 1)

I will update your post in my reply with my inputs so there is a common doc... may be we can make a sticky entry with everyone inputs / experience on this. My inputs in italics.

I hope that is fine ...

@sunny_gv01 Did you update your firmware first? I thought I read that for 50s, a firmware update is required.

 

[sunny_gv01]

@sunny_gv01 Did you update your firmware first? I thought I read that for 50s, a firmware update is required.

Sena 50S-10 i.e. Ver 2 with HK got the update to FW 2.7 to add Mesh 3.0

Sena 50S-01 i.e. Ver 1 without HK is stuck on FW 1.3.1 (for last several months). Sena support informed that the Sena Mgmt is pondering if they want to add Mesh 3.0 to it.

 

[DanPrecision]

Sena 50S-10 i.e. Ver 2 with HK got the update to FW 2.7 to add Mesh 3.0

Sena 50S-01 i.e. Ver 1 without HK is stuck on FW 1.3.1 (for last several months). Sena support informed that the Sena Mgmt is pondering if they want to add Mesh 3.0 to it.

Good info. I have the HK, so I'll have to try the firmware update.

 

[Navy Gator]

Nice write up @Navy Gator

Replicating your test with my Sena 50S-01 (Ver 1)

I will update your post in my reply with my inputs so there is a common doc... may be we can make a sticky entry with everyone inputs / experience on this. My inputs in italics.

I hope that is fine ...

Welcome to use my written posts on this thread as you see fit. If you use a diagram I post, please honor the copyright with written attribution.

I think there is going to be a lot of changes coming for both mesh 3.0 roll out and Wave app

Once things get settled a little bit happy to collaborate with you to write up info and guidance. That might get selected for a sticky in the tech section.

I'm just getting started on evaluating Mesh 3.0, and Wave using four 60s headsets, 50S-10, 50S-01, SRL+Mesh and Cardo Edge and one person only on a phone, no headset.

Got to get the range stuff sorted to determine how Wave will interact with non-Sena headset users and even users without headsets.

Based on the write ups, my understanding is that if a Cardo user is in your Wave app friend list, they will not have range limits on connectivity. The non-Sena users do not join Mesh 3.0 intercom. They are only on Wave intercom.
As Project Farm likes to say - "We're going to test that" 😁

 

[Navy Gator]

Here is a table of Sena Mesh capable units and the status we have for upgrade to mesh 3.0 and full integration with Wave app. Latest firmware version is listed if known.

	Latest Version	Mesh 3.0	Wave	In Wave App As
60S	1.1.3	Yes	Full	60S
50S-10 (HK)	2.7.1	Yes	Full	50S
50S-01 (nonHK)	1.5	Yes	Full	Sena Device
50R (HK)		TBD	Partial
50R (nonHK)		TBD	Partial
50C (HK)		TBD	Partial
50C (nonHK)		TBD	Partial
30S	3.4	TBD	Partial	Sena Device
Spider ST1		TBD	Partial
Spider RT1		TBD	Partial
SRL+Mesh (HK)	1.6.1	Yes	Partial
SRL-EXT		TBD	Partial
+Mesh Adapter		TBD	Partial
Phantom		Yes	Full
Surge		Yes	Full
Impulse	1.2.3	TBD	Partial
Stryker		TBD	Partial
SC2	2.2	TBD	Partial	Sena Device

 

[sunny_gv01]

Welcome to use my written posts on this thread as you see fit. If you use a diagram I post, please honor the copyright with written attribution.

Absolutely will do proper attribution.

I am in NJ, so if you want to test the Cross Country Wave Friend range .. let me know, I will send you my profile link ...

 

[Navy Gator]

Absolutely will do proper attribution.

I am in NJ, so if you want to test the Cross Country Wave Friend range .. let me know, I will send you my profile link ...

PM sent

 

[Big_Bird]

@Navy Gator re your table, I've got an SC2 which is a 50 in a Schuberth wrapper. I'm hoping it keeps pace with the 50. But I won't hold my breath. I'll fiddle with that, 50s-v1, and 30k soon, and shout out any revelations.