[Navy Gator]

@Navy Gator re your table, I've got an SC2 which is a 50 in a Schuberth wrapper. I'm hoping it keeps pace with the 50. But I won't hold my breath. I'll fiddle with that, 50s-v1, and 30k soon, and shout out any revelations.

Thanks for the info BB. I'll consider adding the built in Sena mesh headsets from non-Sena helmet manufacturers.

If you would pass along the latest firmware versions for the 50s-01 and 30S, that would be much appreciated.

 

[kwthom]

Noted the Sena Motorcycle app has been updated (at least the Android version...) in the last 36 hours or so.

Looks a lot better than previously released version.

 

[Navy Gator]

Noted the Sena Motorcycle app has been updated (at least the Android version...) in the last 36 hours or so.

Updated for Apple too...
but sadly the Sena Motorcycle app no longer supports the wifi adapters that were used to automatically update headset firmware. I prefer the adapters to having to do updates via the phone or PC. Just plug in and go do something else.

Suspect the remaining headset updates will move OTA updates via the app. My SRL+Mesh would not update via the wifi adapter yesterday. Could only get the update installed via the PC app.

 

[kwthom]

Updated for Apple too...
but sadly the Sena Motorcycle app no longer supports the wifi adapters that were used to automatically update headset firmware. I prefer the adapters to having to do updates via the phone or PC. Just plug in and go do something else.<...>

Maybe, maybe someone over at Sena Central has figured out that that device is more problem than it's worth.

Sorry, for me the ten-ish minutes to do an update - and physically monitor its progress - has meant that for me, a failure to update a device has never happened.

Kinda like an anvil - when it's the right tool for the job...

Yes, they probably now have their communication protocol optimized for app-to-headset updates as well.

As we keep preachin' when in doubt, make sure you're fussin' with the headset with a current software build.

 

[DanPrecision]

Updated for Apple too...
but sadly the Sena Motorcycle app no longer supports the wifi adapters that were used to automatically update headset firmware. I prefer the adapters to having to do updates via the phone or PC. Just plug in and go do something else.

Suspect the remaining headset updates will move OTA updates via the app. My SRL+Mesh would not update via the wifi adapter yesterday. Could only get the update installed via the PC app.



View attachment 478472

Last night, I updated my 50S HK using the wifi adapter and the new Sena Motorcycle app. It was via Android, but I felt it was even easier than before because it guides you on what to do whether the red or blue lights are solid or blinking.

Hopefully I'll have time to test out the Wave App today. If you need any other test subjects @Navy Gator, please let me know.

 

[Navy Gator]

Some of the Wave Intercom ranges have been clarified by Sena (see email below) and with the help of @sunny_gv01 we have started to confirm other ranges.

Wave Zone: 5 miles / 8 km
Inside the Ring shown in the app
Everyone joining a Wave intercom session must be within 5 miles / 8 km of each other.

Not On Friends List: 6 miles / 9.6 km
Will disconnect / drop when range between you and someone not in your friends list at 6 miles

On Friends List Drop: Unlimited
Will not disconnect until your friend or you turn off Wave intercom


Wave on and off can be done either from the app or the headset that has been upgraded to Mesh 3.0. (In process of verifying)

Two "taps" of the mesh button turns Wave Intercom on.

• One tap - Mesh on and off
• Two taps - Wave on and off
• One 1 sec Press - mesh mic mute (assume this will work for Wave too, needs evaluated)
• One 3 sec Press - turns mesh group on and off

Of note: Sena made the range changes just before roll out.
Reminder to all that we can expect further changes as more users provide feedback and more bugs are identified and addressed.

@kwthom @Fred H. @Auburn @Big_Bird

 

[Navy Gator]

Last night, I updated my 50S HK using the wifi adapter and the new Sena Motorcycle app. It was via Android, but I felt it was even easier than before because it guides you on what to do whether the red or blue lights are solid or blinking.

Hopefully I'll have time to test out the Wave App today. If you need any other test subjects @Navy Gator, please let me know.

Hi Dan
If we were in range of each other I'd very gladly include in the evaluation.

As you know, the wifi adapters are managed via the Sena motorcycle app.

Please take a look to see if your adapter can be found and managed by the Sena app.

I have three older adapters that previously were connected to the Sena app. Now the app is not finding them. I won't be able to update wifi settings if they are not connected to the app.

 

[sunny_gv01]

Some of the Wave Intercom ranges have been clarified by Sena (see email below) and with the help of @sunny_gv01 we have started to confirm other ranges.

Wave Zone: 5 miles / 8 km
Inside the Ring shown in the app
Everyone joining a Wave intercom session must be within 5 miles / 8 km of each other.

Not On Friends List: 6 miles / 9.6 km
Will disconnect / drop when range between you and someone not in your friends list at 6 miles

On Friends List Drop: Unlimited
Will not disconnect until your friend or you turn off Wave intercom

Wave on and off can be done either from the app or the headset.

Two "taps" of the mesh button turns Wave Intercom on.

• One tap - Mesh on and off
• Two taps - Wave on and off
• One 1 sec Press - mesh mic mute (assume this will work for Wave too, needs evaluated)
• One 3 sec Press - turns mesh group on and off

Of note: Sena made the range changes just before roll out.
Reminder to all that we can expect further changes as more users provide feedback and more bugs are identified and addressed.

@kwthom @Fred H. @Auburn @Big_Bird

@Navy Gator : I did additional testing post our testing.

It was me, Rider1 ~ 3miles from me, Rider2 ~20 miles from me. All 3 were connected as friends on the app.

1) Wave app opened, I and R1 could see each other on the map, R2 could not see both of on the map/we could not see him.
So l can confirm that as of now "Everyone joining a Wave intercom session must be within 5 miles / 8 km of each other."

One thing I am interested in knowing is if we can activate Wave intercom by daisy chaining ... Ie Myself 5 miles from R1 and R2 5 miles from R1... so Ideally I should be able to see only R1 , R2 should only see R1, but R2 should be able to see both Me and R2 ...

2) I have Sens 50S-01 (nonHK, FW 1.3.1) and Wave on and off can NOT be done from the headset. 2 Taps on the Mesh Button starts the channel selection on my headset.

3) Also, the voice quality is hit or miss, in my conversation with my friend it went from crystal clear to totally broken and unusable. Turning Wave on/off on his end did resolve the voice issue. So the voice quality will be very dependent on the network you use (Verizon, ATT, TMobile) and the signal strength.

More real world testing when weather is conductive for riding.

Ride Safe
Sunny

 

[Navy Gator]

@Navy Gator : I did additional testing post our testing.

It was me, Rider1 ~ 3miles from me, Rider2 ~20 miles from me. All 3 were connected as friends on the app.

1) Wave app opened, I and R1 could see each other on the map, R2 could not see both of on the map/we could not see him.
So l can confirm that as of now "Everyone joining a Wave intercom session must be within 5 miles / 8 km of each other."

One thing I am interested in knowing is if we can activate Wave intercom by daisy chaining ... Ie Myself 5 miles from R1 and R2 5 miles from R1... so Ideally I should be able to see only R1 , R2 should only see R1, but R2 should be able to see both Me and R2 ...

2) I have Sens 50S-01 (nonHK, FW 1.3.1) and Wave on and off can NOT be done from the headset. 2 Taps on the Mesh Button starts the channel selection on my headset.

3) Also, the voice quality is hit or miss, in my conversation with my friend it went from crystal clear to totally broken and unusable. Turning Wave on/off on his end did resolve the voice issue. So the voice quality will be very dependent on the network you use (Verizon, ATT, TMobile) and the signal strength.

More real world testing when weather is conductive for riding.

Ride Safe
Sunny

I also was wondering about the daisy chain... suspect it will be the case.

Good to know about the double tap not working on the 50S-01. Suspect the double tap only works on headsets that have been upgraded to Mesh 3.0. Will have a friend with a 50S-10 check.

Not surprised about quality. Will always be dependent on network robustness and connection quality on both ends as well as phone quality on both ends.

I'm also curious to know the impacts of wifi connections.

 

[Navy Gator]

Another critical piece of info from Sena

Wave support requests should initially go through the Wave app chat function and not through the Sena help desk.

 

[Navy Gator]

Maybe this will help...

Thanks to @kwthom for review and feedback

 

[Big_Bird]

I just inventoried my Sena stuff. Unhappy. Bitter, even. No recent updates. It looks like my 50S-01 is on the outside of Mesh 3.0 looking in. Along with my SC2. I expected it for the 30k but didn't want it to have so much company.

 

[Navy Gator]

I just inventoried my Sena stuff. Unhappy. Bitter, even. No recent updates. It looks like my 50S-01 is on the outside of Mesh 3.0 looking in. Along with my SC2. I expected it for the 30k but didn't want it to have so much company.

View attachment 478622

Might be rolling out to those.

The SRL-Mesh (which has HK) f/w 1.6.1 enables Mesh 3.0. Just confirmed it with a 60S test.

 

[Navy Gator]

Will be doing some Mesh 3.0 and Wave evaluations on Sunday with four other riders.

Here is what we will be looking at.

Wave intercom app is not Apple Car Play capable (Sena confirmed this).

That means displaying the screen showing Wave intercom participant locations on the Wing's dash display is not available. Can only see them on the phone screen

To get Wave intercom in the headset requires a BT connection between the phone and headset. (Sena stated this -we are going to test it)

If confirmed, the following will be true:

iPhone users that are wired to the bike for ACP have to turn BT on their phones off to prevent a phone to headset BT connection while the phone is connected to the bike via a wire.

The only way for 18-24 Wings to make Wave intercom app work while using ACP is to use a wireless ACP adapter. Will not apply to 25+ Wings which have built in wireless ACP.
Wireless ACP enables the phone to have a BT connection with the headset.

I'm happy with the Carlinkit miniPro 2 wireless adapter.

Android users should not have the problem iphone users have because Android Auto requires a BT connection between headset and phone.

 

[Navy Gator]

Did some evaluations Sunday. Only two riders. Did not do a group. Used both iphone and android phone.

5 miles - max range to see friends and random folks that have not yet joined the Wave intercom session
If they are beyond 5 miles or have not joined, you won't see them.

5 miles - max range for friends and random folks to join a Wave intercom session
They won't be able to join and you will not see them if they are further away

6 miles - max range for maintaining connection with random folks in a Wave intercom session
The random (non-friend) will automatically drop from the session at 6 miles.

Unlimited - range for maintaining connection with friends in a Wave intercom session.
In real time, tracked my friend out to a distance of 35 miles - house to house.

Wave intercom can be used with just a phone, no headset needed.
This would enable a chase vehicle or even someone back home to join.

Comms delay is very noticeable, much longer than mesh. This is expected behavior. Wondering how much the delay will be with a group vice just two.

Wave Intercom is not Apple Car Play or Andriod Auto compatible. All controls must be managed from the phone.

• If the phone isn't mounted on the handle bars, Wave intercom will be harder to use.
• 
  
• Some headsets can turn Wave intercom on/off with a double tap of the mesh button.
• 
  
• It is unclear if intercom mute is also available via a 1 second hold of the mesh button like mute is available for mesh intercom

Wave Intercom is not (currently) compatible with 2018+ Gold Wing in the normal comms configuration.
Wave intercom audio and voice will NOT properly function if the phone (andriod or iphone) is connected either:

• phone to bike, bike to headset

or

• phone to bike, phone to headset, and bike to headset

While the intercom will turn on, if the phone has a wired or BT connection to the Wing, the rider will not hear comms and can not be heard.
Did not check wireless ACP or AA compatibility. Suspect will get the same result.

Suspect this incompatibility will be the case with any motorcycle that has similar comms configs as 2018+ Wings

Do not know if Wave intercom will be compatible with a 01-17 Wing running Sena Freewire set up.
I give Wave intercom a 50/50 chance of working with Gen 5 Wings.

This compatibility problem my exist anytime there is more than one audio device connected to the phone....think Garmin, Tom Tom, Go Pro, Insta360...

Don't think this problem will exist for other vehicles because the vehicles don't have a headset connected.

Use of other apps that provide audio outputs (Sirius XM, Pandora, Apple Music) or need a microphone may cause a conflict that hangs up the Wave app resulting in the person being dropped from the intercom session. This can happen whether using a headset or not.
Had this happen.
This needs further evaluation.

@kwthom @Fred H. @sunny_gv01 @Big_Bird

 

[Big_Bird]

Thanks for that info @Navy Gator. A few comments on the margins. All tempered by no practical experience with it yet.

You're making the important distinction between friends and randos. Good. There seems to be a related but different distinction in the web glossy between Geo-Based Wave Intercom and Friends-based Group Intercom. The former does make distinctions between friends and randos. The latter claims no distance limits. It's blurry, but I think one of the earlier notes said that latter may not be active yet.

Are you seeing those two different flavors? And hopefully only testing in the first flavor?

I understand what you're saying about must be close to connect, but friends stay connected until the session ends. That seems consistent with the Geo-Based Wave Intercom verbiage. It would be a HUGE disappointment to me if the Friends-based Group Intercom wasn't distance agnostic. I hope when it does come along that friends can be distant and still start a session.

The VOIP lag is real. Very noticeable when I've used Zello and we're standing around for a pre-event comm check. As soon as you're out of earshot it becomes pretty much a non-issue.

On playing with other devices. At the root of all the multi-device compatibilities and such is how does your headset treat the Wave signal from the phone. In my experience with Zello with Android I think I worked out that the headset treats it like a phone call so it trumps everything. Then the Zello app in the phone controls its deference to a proper phone call. The app also has a setting for whether it keeps the headset connection open (burns a lot of battery) or releases it between audio signals. All that impacts how it plays with other stuff. Different results if the Wave audio is treated as media / A2DP than phone / HSP etc.

Tangential whine, I would like to use my Zumo XT as the switchboard between my helmet and my phone. However, having GPS audio constantly interrupting all mesh intercom and media from the phone short of actual phone calls is the deal breaker for me.

 

[Big_Bird]

P.S. IME VOIP lag does not increase with larger group. I suspect Wave will not get worse. The issue is the net of slight routing lags in the signal path, not load. Which should stay about the same with more participants. That's my theory. In practice, we'll see.

 

[Navy Gator]

P.S. IME VOIP lag does not increase with larger group. I suspect Wave will not get worse. The issue is the net of slight routing lags in the signal path, not load. Which should stay about the same with more participants. That's my theory. In practice, we'll see.

Geo based (currently active) vs Friends based (not yet released, no estimated date).
My understanding is that they will be two different intercoms.
Have heard conflicting reports about whether Friends based will be a separate app or integrated in to the Wave app. Will have to wait to see, just like we did with actual ranges.

I do think Wave is a bit different than other VOIP apps.
Select headsets are integrated with the app.
For example,

• double tapping the mesh button
  • turns on Wave intercom
  • changes the intercom light from green (mesh) to blue (Wave)
• the headset and app jointly integrate the ability to move back and forth between mesh intercom and Wave intercom. (I suspect this is not seamless and is a major work in progress)

Working to set up more evaluation time.

 

[sunny_gv01]

More Real World Test: Rode with 4 friends today, Headsets: 4 50S HK, 1 (My) 50S non-HK

Wave was easy to setup, the scan QR code to add friend was a lil buggy.
Good: If all of you turned on wave, you could tap on the id to send friend request.

Voice quality was better than Mesh 2.0 , but when it worked. Worked gr8 80% of the time.
Range was awesome once connected...I think real world I got like 15 miles between me and my friend.

Issues: I could hear everyone clearly, but some times to my friends my voice was super fast like internet packets were trying to catch up after a delay). This is VOIP so that is to be expected.

Biggest Issue: Wave was inconsistent. Sometimes Wave shut off if one friend dropped off, other time it did not shut off.
Also a few times it shut off , and I could not attribute any reason for that. Hand-off to Mesh 2.0 was seamless.

Improvement that Sena needs to make: Put a button in the Sena app to set Mesh to on as default (i.e. you turn on the Sena and Mesh turns on, you should not need to press a button to turn on mesh).
Reason: We stopped and then people turned off the Sena, and then when they turned it back on, they forgot to tun on the Mesh and turned on wave. So when Wave disconnected, it became cumbersome and unsafe to turn Mesh on during riding ...

Sena should also add the capability to Wave app:
1) To add friendly names to Friends. I don't want to broadcast my full name on open wave mesh, but it was difficult to recognize friends with the cryptic names.

2) Add a capability to add the map zoom factor. I felt that the default zoom level was very samll (like 100 feet) when Wave was on. I coudl only see 1 biek ahead of me, as all others were way haed to maintoan safe ridign distance.

Surprise: My friend was on wave, made a call, so wave cut off, then when he ended the call, the wave communication picked up again. HE was 15 miles for me...


In all, I am excited. As this app matures, it is going to be a real game changer .... I hope Sena brings improved comaptiblity to older headsets ...

 

[Navy Gator]

More Real World Test: Rode with 4 friends today, Headsets: 4 50S HK, 1 (My) 50S non-HK

Wave was easy to setup, the scan QR code to add friend was a lil buggy.
Good: If all of you turned on wave, you could tap on the id to send friend request.

Voice quality was better than Mesh 2.0 , but when it worked. Worked gr8 80% of the time.
Range was awesome once connected...I think real world I got like 15 miles between me and my friend.

Issues: I could hear everyone clearly, but some times to my friends my voice was super fast like internet packets were trying to catch up after a delay). This is VOIP so that is to be expected.

Biggest Issue: Wave was inconsistent. Sometimes Wave shut off if one friend dropped off, other time it did not shut off.
Also a few times it shut off , and I could not attribute any reason for that. Hand-off to Mesh 2.0 was seamless.

Improvement that Sena needs to make: Put a button in the Sena app to set Mesh to on as default (i.e. you turn on the Sena and Mesh turns on, you should not need to press a button to turn on mesh).
Reason: We stopped and then people turned off the Sena, and then when they turned it back on, they forgot to tun on the Mesh and turned on wave. So when Wave disconnected, it became cumbersome and unsafe to turn Mesh on during riding ...

Sena should also add the capability to Wave app:
1) To add friendly names to Friends. I don't want to broadcast my full name on open wave mesh, but it was difficult to recognize friends with the cryptic names.

2) Add a capability to add the map zoom factor. I felt that the default zoom level was very samll (like 100 feet) when Wave was on. I coudl only see 1 biek ahead of me, as all others were way haed to maintoan safe ridign distance.

Surprise: My friend was on wave, made a call, so wave cut off, then when he ended the call, the wave communication picked up again. HE was 15 miles for me...


In all, I am excited. As this app matures, it is going to be a real game changer .... I hope Sena brings improved comaptiblity to older headsets ...

Very helpful. I took a screen shot and sent to Sena engineering.

What year is your Wing?

Did anyone have a bike connected to the headset at the same time the phone was connected to the headset?

Wave is already compatible with almost any brand and model of headset. Just need a phone - headset connection. Sooo..
Wonder how the default mesh on feature would work with non-mesh and non-Sena headsets.