[sunny_gv01]

Very helpful. I took a screen shot and sent to Sena engineering.

What year is your Wing?

Did anyone have a bike connected to the headset at the same time the phone was connected to the headset?

Wave is already compatible with almost any brand and model of headset. Just need a phone - headset connection. Sooo..
Wonder how the default mesh on feature would work with non-mesh and non-Sena headsets.

I have a 2007 GW ...

My friend who was having issues with volume and outbound speech (her voice was very broken, unusable, she could hear us fine) was not connected to the bike. May be some other issue, we will check next time.

I am assuming, the people who are not on Sena Mesh headsets will just drop off.. and reconnect. I am assuming there is a background network ping to Sena servers from to app to see if the network is back on.

Biggest challenge I saw was that its either Wave or Mesh .. so if a person in the group is in Mesh range but has a bad connection, he is out of communications ... may be Sena can find a way to get Mesh and Wave to work together ....


The Hack I see to that right now to that problem is : Use 2 Sena 50S connected to each other over BT intercom. Sena 50S 1 then bridges BT intercom to Mesh ... Sena 2 connects to phone for Wave .... this may work assuming Wave lets BT bridging to work ... I will try it next time ...

Finally, I don't see this making money for Sena , instead it will encourage people who ride in good cell signal areas not to upgrade their old devices. I am assuming once there is mass adoption and kinks are ironed out, it will become a paid service ... just putting it here for record sake .








One thing that needs more clarity is : Is the Wave a true Mesh (like Mesh 2.0 or 3.0) or is there going to be a master slave relationship between the headsets...

 

[Big_Bird]

^ I think I saw a mention that BT intercom doesn't work with Wave, so that option of being an access point for a non-mesh headset by BT intercom pairing doesn't fly with Wave/mesh.

Still no experience with it here. It has been a little chilly, my usual ride buddy's bike has been in the shop, and we live more than 5 miles apart to start a session. Waaaa. I look forward to tinkering with it soon.

I am livid with as much anti-Sena ire as I've felt for a while. Going through checking my firmware is up to date, my 50S-01 hasn't seen a firmware update in forever and the firmware history is barely visible; it seems barely supported. My 30k is an earlier model that is many numbered versions behind the current. And as expected, my SC2 (50 in a Schuberth wrapper) doesn't see the Wave update. Early adopters get punished.

Not trying to torpedo Wave (at all) or Sena (much), but for those of you tinkering with it and on the margins of coming up with new feature requests and operating conditions, consider having a play with Zello. Just so you have another experience and more to ponder. I put out some info about it in the thread below.

https://www.gl1800riders.com/threads/zello-as-an-alternative-to-cb-other-radios.490944/

Note Zello is all PTT-driven. Mostly for the good as Fred pointed out. But there is a negative of having to use the on-screen PTT button on your phone. Manipulating that, with gloves on, isn't nice. However, the external buttons work great.

If we're launching feature requests, my short list for Wave is: (before I've even tried it )

1. Get the unlimited range friends-based group wave working
2. Add support for external PTT buttons and create a VOX/PTT setting so groups can have it both ways.
3. Support the 50S-01 and stop doing nonsense like that, i.e. so our 60 early adopters don't get stuck with the 60-01 when Mesh 4.0 comes out in 2027 for the 60-03 and up.

As long as you are staying within cell data coverage, i.e. not in a zone where Wave flips to mesh when you're out of network, it's not too far out to say Zello is like a PTT-based Wave.

Zello does NOT do the geo location thing -- Glympse does that but no communications, so I've used them in tandem and would LOVE to see Wave do it well all-in-one. So I am very hopeful it comes together.

 

[Navy Gator]

^ I think I saw a mention that BT intercom doesn't work with Wave, so that option of being an access point for a non-mesh headset by BT intercom pairing doesn't fly with Wave/mesh.

Understand the frustrations.
I feel the disappointment about Wave's inability to integrate in to the 2018+ configuration

Wave Intercom is only backed up by Sena Mesh Intercom, not BT intercom just as you stated.

All headsets with a connection to a phone are compatible with Wave intercom as a standalone cell phone based intercom option, exactly like Zello

But only Sena Mesh intercom capable headsets (fingers crossed all of them eventually) will have the fall back back from Wave to Mesh.

I am hopeful that the Wave capability will continue to evolve and that Sena rolls out Wave compatibility updates to all Mesh capable headsets.

 

[Big_Bird]

Wave Intercom is only backed up by Sena Mesh Intercom, not BT intercom just as you stated.

Re "backed up" -- understood that mesh, not BT, is the fall back carrier signal for Wave when cell data drops.

I was referring to something different. I think I read BT intercom was not compatible at all with Wave mesh, you cannot act as a gateway node for someone like you can with vanilla mesh. So what @sunny_gv01 is talking about below is doomed.

I'm very prepared to be wrong. Again. Let us know how it goes @sunny_gv01

Obviously BT still works, since that is how your phone and headset connect. It's not categorically dead, but BT intercom was specifically called out as offsides. At least in my memory of my reading comprehension of their writing comprehension. That's a lot of points of failure.

The Hack I see to that right now to that problem is : Use 2 Sena 50S connected to each other over BT intercom. Sena 50S 1 then bridges BT intercom to Mesh ... Sena 2 connects to phone for Wave .... this may work assuming Wave lets BT bridging to work ... I will try it next time ...

 

[dadztoy]

I'm a dinosaur - still have 20 & 30s units with no plans to upgrade. And some of my riding buddies have the cardo units which don't play well with Sena. However, kudos to @Navy Gator for the info.

I'm even a bigger dinosaur!! I still use corded headsets with my wife when she rides with me as she (and I) hate the latency delays of the bt headsets. I still use a Sena 30 k when riding solo but only to listen to music (seldom) when I ride or receive a phone call (hardly ever)...

When riding with a friend or two, we prefer the cb radio. Yeah, I know, I'm a dinosaur!! 😁

Les

 

[kwthom]

Understand the frustrations.
I feel the disappointment about Wave's inability to integrate in to the 2018+ configuration
<...>

My 0.02 on that...

It's such a marginal use case...yeah, might get around to fixing it, but need to satisfy the >90% of the user base first.

 

[Big_Bird]

Any new revelations here? I'm going out for a spin this weekend with a friend that is geeky enough to test with. I've got an SC2 and she's got a 30k, so we won't be doing uber Wave but it should work.

BTW, another science project of mine at the moment is trying to improve communications for circuit bicycle races. I've got a lead on a decent portable antenna that should be a big improvement. I really really really wish Wave would work with a PTT button.

 

[Navy Gator]

Any new revelations here? I'm going out for a spin this weekend with a friend that is geeky enough to test with. I've got an SC2 and she's got a 30k, so we won't be doing uber Wave but it should work.

BTW, another science project of mine at the moment is trying to improve communications for circuit bicycle races. I've got a lead on a decent portable antenna that should be a big improvement. I really really really wish Wave would work with a PTT button.

Other than it can not be used when using ACP or AA, nothing new. Set up to work only with phone to headset configuration and not with a bike in the middle.

Hoping to get some evaluations in with GEN 5 riders this weekend

I too with there was a PTT device for intercoms, Wave, Mesh 3.0, Mesh 2.0, and DCM

 

[Big_Bird]

Other than it can not be used when using ACP or AA, nothing new. Set up to work only with phone to headset configuration and not with a bike in the middle.

Hoping to get some evaluations in with GEN 5 riders this weekend

I too with there was a PTT device for intercoms, Wave, Mesh 3.0, Mesh 2.0, and DCM

Neither one of us has a BT bike in the middle.

I hope to poke at some of the proximity vs. friend stuff, particularly the reconnecting after a drop part. Not sure we'll dance on the 5 - 6 mile range enough to learn much.

 

[sunny_gv01]

Neither one of us has a BT bike in the middle.

I hope to poke at some of the proximity vs. friend stuff, particularly the reconnecting after a drop part. Not sure we'll dance on the 5 - 6 mile range enough to learn much.

Last time I rode, my friend was 15 mile away, auto-dropped for a call (IE he did not turn off the wave), he reconnected once the call was over.

My assumption is that once you are connected, you should remain connected as long as you don't turn off Wave... maybe that is a scenario you can test ...

 

[Navy Gator]

Last time I rode, my friend was 15 mile away, auto-dropped for a call (IE he did not turn off the wave), he reconnected once the call was over.

My assumption is that once you are connected, you should remain connected as long as you don't turn off Wave... maybe that is a scenario you can test ...

No theoretical range limit if you both are in each other's friends list. - Had the same experience with a friend of mine as well.

 

[Big_Bird]

No theoretical range limit if you both are in each other's friends list. - Had the same experience with a friend of mine as well.

To stay connected, yes, that has seemed to evolve but it my current understanding. But to connect? Initially or after a drop? I hope it is similarly unlimited but heard otherwise, that you need to be within 5 or 6 miles to initiate -- at least for now. Do you have experience with that aspect? Something I'll play with.

 

[dduelin]

I installed a 60S this week and after reading this thread through I’m wondering if I bit off more tech than I can chew after SMH10, 20S, 50S v1. I have two friends with 60s but they haven’t used Wave yet. We’ll see but it’s great to have talented guys willing to hash this out into operating instructions for the rest of us. Thanks guys!

 

[Navy Gator]

To stay connected, yes, that has seemed to evolve but it my current understanding. But to connect? Initially or after a drop? I hope it is similarly unlimited but heard otherwise, that you need to be within 5 or 6 miles to initiate -- at least for now. Do you have experience with that aspect? Something I'll play with.

To connect you have to be within 5 miles.

 

[Navy Gator]

I installed a 60S this week and after reading this thread through I’m wondering if I bit off more tech than I can chew after SMH10, 20S, 50S v1. I have two friends with 60s but they haven’t used Wave yet. We’ll see but it’s great to have talented guys willing to hash this out into operating instructions for the rest of us. Thanks guys!

Dave
Wave isn't tied to the 60S or any headset - though the the 60s and any headset updated to Mesh 3.0 has a feature to have Wave preempt Mesh.
You can use Wave on your phone without a headset. Even folks with a non-Sena headset can use Wave.
If you are using ACP or AA with your 2018, you can't use Wave at the same time. Sena is aware of the limitation.

 

[Big_Bird]

though the the 60s and any headset updated to Mesh 3.0 has a feature to have Wave preempt Mesh.

Confirming I'm in sync with the Clintonesque meaning of "preempt." I'm still running off the belief that Wave normal is running only on mobile data as the carrier while the helmet-to-helmet mesh radio network slumbers. When mobile data coverage drops, wave will auto-switch to mesh as a backup carrier between nodes. Sena call that "Intelligent Wave-to-Mesh conversion" and it seems to be a function on all the Sena mesh devices, not just the ones that will up-gun to 3.0. See "legacy Sena Mesh Intercom devices" blurb in the screenshot below from The Best Motorcycle & Action Sport Bluetooth Devices | Sena Though I gather something is better about 3.0, and if they ever get around to updating my early 50 maybe I'll see.

Though I know what the glossies say and what is rolled out in whatever version of consumer beta we're in at the moment may differ.

BTW, I assume all this ramps up phone battery consumption significantly. I run with a powered cradle so don't care, probably won't even watch it, but I suspect anyone used to carrying their phone in a pocket will start seeing low juice much earlier.

 

[Navy Gator]

Confirming I'm in sync with the Clintonesque meaning of "preempt." I'm still running off the belief that Wave normal is running only on mobile data as the carrier while the helmet-to-helmet mesh radio network slumbers. When mobile data coverage drops, wave will auto-switch to mesh as a backup carrier between nodes. Sena call that "Intelligent Wave-to-Mesh conversion" and it seems to be a function on all the Sena mesh devices, not just the ones that will up-gun to 3.0. See "legacy Sena Mesh Intercom devices" blurb in the screenshot below from The Best Motorcycle & Action Sport Bluetooth Devices | Sena Though I gather something is better about 3.0, and if they ever get around to updating my early 50 maybe I'll see.

Though I know what the glossies say and what is rolled out in whatever version of consumer beta we're in at the moment may differ.

BTW, I assume all this ramps up phone battery consumption significantly. I run with a powered cradle so don't care, probably won't even watch it, but I suspect anyone used to carrying their phone in a pocket will start seeing low juice much earlier.

View attachment 481116

You got it, and it does use battery power faster.
The transition between Wave and Mesh and back to Wave is not seamless.
Look forward to your thoughts once you have been through it.

 

[Big_Bird]

The transition between Wave and Mesh and back to Wave is not seamless.

This is my shocked face.

 

[Big_Bird]

Tested Wave. Modest success. No great insights. Some things that elude me.

I had Wave on and rolled toward a friend with Wave on. We popped up on each others little circles at ~6miles as the crow flies (not 5), and she reached out. Easy. We did not bother testing on the departure end of things since it has been established the connections hold as you get more distant, as long as you don't disconnect. Also didn't test dropping cell signal.

Equipment in use: my SC2 (50 in a Schuberth wrapper) up to date, her 30k not sure which version but not recently updated, then another guy's early model 50s for which the new mesh is not (yet?) available.

Voice quality was OK but I was getting an echo on my end, of my own voice, a 1/2 sec delay or so. Not on her end.

My SC2 didn't seem to do the double tap mesh button to toggle Wave on/off thing. The only way to get Wave on/off was via the button on the phone. It's easy to believe that's a function of the white label oddity and no update. It's not the same buttons as the 50s, more like a 50r.

50s guy was not particularly trainable for the double tap so I'm not sure if it or he failed, but I did clearly hear Name left Wave and Name joined Wave as he hamfisted his mesh on / off, which he could do with a headset mesh button push unlike me with the SC2. As advertised, Wave & Mesh were an either/or choice.

We rode for a bit and never saw anyone else in the locality-based Wave. I don't think the friends-based stuff is deployed yet and there was no obvious way to segregate our group from the unwashed if we happened upon any. I assume we did not, i.e. that is wasn't us in a private friends group, we were "open Wave" in effect just no one else in the neighborhood.

I was glad to see the prominent mic on/off control on the Wave screen but it is still not the PTT feature I yearn for.

 

[Navy Gator]

Sena has requested that everyone interested provide feedback about the need for Wave to have ACP and AA capability in order to support "Motorcycle in the Middle" configuration

Provide feedback on the thread at this link:

https://community.sena.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/35965283397268-Request-Wave-Intercom-Compatiblity-with-Apple-Car-Play-and-Android-Auto

Will require you to register with Sena if you haven't done so.